Curious Moro blade

zelbone · 17th April 2006, 03:51 PM

I have to disagree with you, Ian. I've handled this sword and I seriously doubt that the blade was manufactured outside the Philippines. There are other Moro swords besides the kampilan, kris, barung, panabas, pira, bangkung, janap, and gayang. Most swords were made on a custom basis and the original owner probably had this particular one made to fit his fighting style. In fact, to me it handles better than your typical barung.

I see where your coming from of the similarities to swords from Sumbawa with the narrow neck feature. It may be a rarity on a Moro sword, but isn't unheard of among other Filipino swords. There are several narrow necked swords found all across the Philippine archipeligo. Some of these include the plamanko, certain sansibars, binakokos, a few Batangas espadas, a type of bolo from Bicol, and those ubiquitous "talibons" from Leyte and Samar. Here are a few narrow necked sundang from the Philippines to compare to.

Ian · 17th April 2006, 07:38 PM

Good to hear from you. Rare Moro blade forms are always going to be hard to pin down as to their origins I guess.

Of the examples you posted, I think only the top one is of a truly similar style, with the clear "cut out" segment and the parallel edges of the blade near the hilt. Interesting that it is found on a Visayan knife. In fact, that particular blade looks very similar to a Sulawesi badek pictured in van Zonneveld (p. 27, no. 24) but that one has a Bugis hilt that is obviously different from your example.

Perhaps this "cut out" blade style arose elsewhere (Java, Sulawesi, the Lesser Sundas) but was incorporated into the Moro and Visayan armamentaria as a rare form. You might like to check whether larbango (Java) is a term used for a Moro weapon -- just as bangkung (Bugis), jimpul (Kenyah, Sea Dyak) have been borrowed from other ethnic groups to describe weapons used by the Moro.

One last question and I'll let this one rest. Since you have handled this particular item, is the hardened edge inserted (in the usual Moro way) or differentially heat treated?

A picture of the etched blade and edge would be nice to see.

Ian.

Ian · 24th April 2006, 03:53 AM

Just finished on eBay. This is a sword length Sumbawa example, again with the cut out ricasso feature.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7407963143

Ian.

VVV · 24th April 2006, 06:00 AM

I also noticed it when we were discussing.
Isn't that the same seller as for the one you posted?

Michael

Ian · 24th April 2006, 01:13 PM

Yes, it is the same seller Michael.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

I also noticed it when we were discussing.
Isn't that the same seller as for the one you posted?

Michael

VVV · 24th April 2006, 05:02 PM

That's what I thought.
Below are my three Sumbawa sword variations.
Also I have enclosed a Sumbawa knife next to a well known Sumatran knife (the top one is Sumbawa).
I have of course seen more Sumbawa swords than those but none before with that kind of pronounced, sharp cut, parallell neck as those recently sold by that specific seller.
Maybe it's a local village variation or made by the same person considering they come from the same source?
On Indonesian knives however that kind of sharp cut neck could be found in different regions.

Michael

17th April 2006, 03:51 PM	#1
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	I have to disagree with you, Ian. I've handled this sword and I seriously doubt that the blade was manufactured outside the Philippines. There are other Moro swords besides the kampilan, kris, barung, panabas, pira, bangkung, janap, and gayang. Most swords were made on a custom basis and the original owner probably had this particular one made to fit his fighting style. In fact, to me it handles better than your typical barung. I see where your coming from of the similarities to swords from Sumbawa with the narrow neck feature. It may be a rarity on a Moro sword, but isn't unheard of among other Filipino swords. There are several narrow necked swords found all across the Philippine archipeligo. Some of these include the plamanko, certain sansibars, binakokos, a few Batangas espadas, a type of bolo from Bicol, and those ubiquitous "talibons" from Leyte and Samar. Here are a few narrow necked sundang from the Philippines to compare to. Attached Images

17th April 2006, 07:38 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Thanks Zel ... Good to hear from you. Rare Moro blade forms are always going to be hard to pin down as to their origins I guess. Of the examples you posted, I think only the top one is of a truly similar style, with the clear "cut out" segment and the parallel edges of the blade near the hilt. Interesting that it is found on a Visayan knife. In fact, that particular blade looks very similar to a Sulawesi badek pictured in van Zonneveld (p. 27, no. 24) but that one has a Bugis hilt that is obviously different from your example. Perhaps this "cut out" blade style arose elsewhere (Java, Sulawesi, the Lesser Sundas) but was incorporated into the Moro and Visayan armamentaria as a rare form. You might like to check whether larbango (Java) is a term used for a Moro weapon -- just as bangkung (Bugis), jimpul (Kenyah, Sea Dyak) have been borrowed from other ethnic groups to describe weapons used by the Moro. One last question and I'll let this one rest. Since you have handled this particular item, is the hardened edge inserted (in the usual Moro way) or differentially heat treated? A picture of the etched blade and edge would be nice to see. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 18th April 2006 at 04:58 AM. Reason: Additional information

24th April 2006, 03:53 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Another Sumbawa blade Just finished on eBay. This is a sword length Sumbawa example, again with the cut out ricasso feature. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7407963143 Ian.

24th April 2006, 05:02 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	That's what I thought. Below are my three Sumbawa sword variations. Also I have enclosed a Sumbawa knife next to a well known Sumatran knife (the top one is Sumbawa). I have of course seen more Sumbawa swords than those but none before with that kind of pronounced, sharp cut, parallell neck as those recently sold by that specific seller. Maybe it's a local village variation or made by the same person considering they come from the same source? On Indonesian knives however that kind of sharp cut neck could be found in different regions. Michael Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 24th April 2006 at 05:10 PM. Reason: clarification

24th April 2006, 06:00 AM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I also noticed it when we were discussing. Isn't that the same seller as for the one you posted? Michael