Balinese/Lombok Keris for comments

Jean · 25th February 2019, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Here is another similar dress combo of suggingan sheath and Tapukan hilt, though the blade seems a more standard size.

Mismatched blade and scabbard?

David · 25th February 2019, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Mismatched blade and scabbard?

I have no idea judging solely by these photos. Why do you suspect so?

Jean · 25th February 2019, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Mismatched blade and scabbard?

The sampir is designed for a ganja kelap lintah...

David · 25th February 2019, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

The sampir is designed for a ganja kelap lintah...

Well, you might be correct there. Not something i really noticed from these photos. However, my purpose in posting was to show similar dress to both Athanase and mine. Whether or not the blade was re-fitted to this dress was not really important.

Jean · 25th February 2019, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Whether or not the blade was re-fitted to this dress was not really important.

I understand David but for me it is important to try to know whether these short blades fitted on Balinese / Lombok krisses are original or not (dealer's montage). They may be older blades as you have suggested, however from memory they do not appear in the large collection of Lombok krisses shown in the Lalu Djelenga books for instance.

Athanase · 25th February 2019, 11:07 PM

The fitting of my keris in the wrangka is near perfect.
The wood of scabbard is light and less quality than my non-painted balineses Keris.

David · 26th February 2019, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

I understand David but for me it is important to try to know whether these short blades fitted on Balinese / Lombok krisses are original or not (dealer's montage). They may be older blades as you have suggested, however from memory they do not appear in the large collection of Lombok krisses shown in the Lalu Djelenga books for instance.

Understood Jean. So apparently we have mine, which i am pretty certain is a sheath made specially with this old, relatively short Bali/Lombok blade, and now Athanase is confirming that his sheath also seems cut to fit.
Athanase, can you take a photo of the top of the sheath so we can see the fit?

Athanase · 28th February 2019, 10:37 AM

The pictures.

David · 28th February 2019, 10:19 PM

Thanks Athanase. Given the small size of this keris and the lack of visible fillers it would seem that like my example your sheath was made specifically for this blade.
I received the following information from an outside source to add to this discussion. I don't quite buy all of it for reasons i will give in a moment, but feel it is still interesting information to add.
"The short blades are common in Bali where the people wear short krisses in everyday's life. The large kris was worn with the ceremonial attire and reserved for official ceremonies and rituals. In Tanganan it is still possible to see men wearing a small kris inserted into the belt. And these short blades were sometimes fitted in large scabbards such as for this specimen."
So one question we have to address is the question of these shorter than average Bali keris. We know they exist are are not merely Javanese keris fitted with Bali dress. I would question the above assertion that these shorter blades are "common" If that were the case surely we would see more of them and we don't. Though i suppose that it os possible that the shorter variety was popular in some areas of Bali. I have heard it suggested that the larger variety of Bali keris are more recent (last 200 years) and earlier examples might well be a bot shorter. The Bali keris is a direct descendent from Jawa after all. I would think that when the keris first migrated to Bali that they were very much the same dimensions as the the Javanese keris was at the time. I am also not convinced that the longer Bali keris were meant only for ceremony and that the Balinese had a smaller keris for their everyday needs. Again, if this were true we would see many more of these small Bali keris about, no?
This does still leave us with the question of why dress these smaller keris in larger clothing. It still seems somewhat logical that this has something to do this the keris fitting into the traditional ways of wearing the keris, but i am certainly open to hearing other theories on this as it has puzzled me a bit for some time.

25th February 2019, 11:07 PM	#6
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 417	The fitting of my keris in the wrangka is near perfect. The wood of scabbard is light and less quality than my non-painted balineses Keris. Last edited by Athanase; 26th February 2019 at 02:23 PM.

28th February 2019, 10:37 AM	#8
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 417	The pictures. Attached Images

28th February 2019, 10:19 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Thanks Athanase. Given the small size of this keris and the lack of visible fillers it would seem that like my example your sheath was made specifically for this blade. I received the following information from an outside source to add to this discussion. I don't quite buy all of it for reasons i will give in a moment, but feel it is still interesting information to add. "The short blades are common in Bali where the people wear short krisses in everyday's life. The large kris was worn with the ceremonial attire and reserved for official ceremonies and rituals. In Tanganan it is still possible to see men wearing a small kris inserted into the belt. And these short blades were sometimes fitted in large scabbards such as for this specimen." So one question we have to address is the question of these shorter than average Bali keris. We know they exist are are not merely Javanese keris fitted with Bali dress. I would question the above assertion that these shorter blades are "common" If that were the case surely we would see more of them and we don't. Though i suppose that it os possible that the shorter variety was popular in some areas of Bali. I have heard it suggested that the larger variety of Bali keris are more recent (last 200 years) and earlier examples might well be a bot shorter. The Bali keris is a direct descendent from Jawa after all. I would think that when the keris first migrated to Bali that they were very much the same dimensions as the the Javanese keris was at the time. I am also not convinced that the longer Bali keris were meant only for ceremony and that the Balinese had a smaller keris for their everyday needs. Again, if this were true we would see many more of these small Bali keris about, no? This does still leave us with the question of why dress these smaller keris in larger clothing. It still seems somewhat logical that this has something to do this the keris fitting into the traditional ways of wearing the keris, but i am certainly open to hearing other theories on this as it has puzzled me a bit for some time.