Flint pistol - Nationality?

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

Is this muzzle “decoration/fake rifling” common to some particular area?

Why do you think this is a fake rifling?
As the back of the barrel is fluted at its surface I think this pistol has been made in Italy.
corrado26

[fernando]

Originally Posted by corrado26

... Why do you think this is a fake rifling? ...

The darkness of the picture doesn't let us check the barrel interior but, James is in a better condition to see that there is no rifling continuity inside.
Just like in the pistol that Fernando K has linked, that 'crenelation' in the muzzle is only a fantasy.
Besides, if actual rifling would have its grooves carved so deep, the barrel wall thickness would become critical.
Am i correct ?



.

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by fernando

Besides, if actual rifling would have its grooves carved so deep, the barrel wall thickness would become critical.
Am i correct ?



.

There are lots of military guns - not rifles - with a rather thin wall thickness. These have mostly been fusilier-guns which could be loaded either quickly with a simple roll bullet or if there was a liitle more time with a plaster(?) bullet which has been more precise. As the wall thickness of the barrels normaly increases from the muzzle to the end there never have been problems because of the powder pressure especially since this pressure decreases on its way to the muzzle.
Rifling onlyt at the muzzle is mostly to be found at pistols with unscrewable barrels to put in a fitting key in order to turn off the barrel. At a pistol with a fixed barrel such grooves make no sense at all.
corrado26

[fernando]

Originally Posted by corrado26

...There are lots of military guns - not rifles - with a rather thin wall thickness...

Maybe not that thin, i would say .

Originally Posted by corrado26

... Rifling only at the muzzle is mostly to be found at pistols with "unscrewable" barrels to put in a fitting key in order to turn off the barrel.

You mean "screwable", Udo; yes, but not with so many dents, that i know of ... and with a different configuration .

Definitely James can tell us why he called it fake.


.

[corrado26]

Ok, my mistake, screwable is the expression.

Here is a pistol of my collection made by Andreas Erttel gunmaker to the court of Saxony with a rifled barrel. The twisted grooves go down the barrel until the powder chamber and as you can see the thickness of the barrel's wall is not that much though there is a muzzle ring that increases the thickness remarkably.
corrado26

[Pukka Bundook]

I agree with Corrado that the pistol in the opening post appears to have an Italian fluted barrel. This does not mean the pistol Is Italian, as this type of barrel was used over Europe and the UK.

In Corrado's post above, he shows a pistol with a turn-off barrel. This is a very different thing, as the barrel was unscrewed for loading. In the pistol in the opening post, the muzzle decoration is just that, decoration.
It is a nice pistol, and I would have Guessed Italian, or Germanic or somewhere between the two!

Very best wishes,
Richard.
Corrado,
I was presuming when I wrote the above, that your pistol used the rifling at the muzzle to take a spanner for turning off the barrel.
Is this so?...Or, is there a lug on the barrel we can not see in the photos, that a wrench fits over? (This would be just in front of the stock towards the breech of the barrel.)

[corrado26]

That's an error, the barrel does not turn off! And as I wrote before, the grooves are twisted what would not make any sense if these grooves would have been just for a key.

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Corrado,
I was presuming when I wrote the above, that your pistol used the rifling at the muzzle to take a spanner for turning off the barrel.
Is this so?...Or, is there a lug on the barrel we can not see in the photos, that a wrench fits over? (This would be just in front of the stock towards the breech of the barrel.)

Dear Pukka Bandook,

sorry no, the barrel of my pistol has no lug to set a wrench, but you are right, it is very unusual that there is such a short stock. But in the collection of the Ruestkammer at Dresden there is a very similar pair also made by Erttel with the same stocks and barrels.
Regards
corrado26

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

There are lots of military guns - not rifles - with a rather thin wall thickness. These have mostly been fusilier-guns which could be loaded either quickly with a simple roll bullet or if there was a liitle more time with a plaster(?) bullet which has been more precise. As the wall thickness of the barrels normaly increases from the muzzle to the end there never have been problems because of the powder pressure especially since this pressure decreases on its way to the muzzle.
Rifling onlyt at the muzzle is mostly to be found at pistols with unscrewable barrels to put in a fitting key in order to turn off the barrel. At a pistol with a fixed barrel such grooves make no sense at all.
corrado26

Thank you so much for this fascinating insight Corrado!!!!!

As someone wo has always studied edged weapons, it is amazing to learn more on the dynamics of these firearms.Your explanations are well worded so that a lay person in this field such as myself can easily follow.