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13th February 2019, 12:57 AM
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#1 |
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Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,336
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Those dotted lines on the handle; Hippo tooth?
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13th February 2019, 06:18 AM
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#2 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
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Quote:
 And I beat Mr. Hippo Ivory to it...   Regards, Kai |
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13th February 2019, 06:21 AM
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#3 | |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,164
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13th February 2019, 09:59 AM
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#4 | |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Sth East Queensland Australia
Posts: 10
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Quote:
So is this a good thing? In so far as is Hippo Ivory any more or less desirable in a Keris hilt (or any collectable item for that matter) than elephant tusk or whale tooth ivory? And how would it have found its way to the region? |
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13th February 2019, 11:00 AM
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#5 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
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Hello Greg,
Quote:
In the Malay world, hippo has a reputation for staying white longer than the other ivories. It also is a tiny bit harder material, on average. It's certainly the Arab merchants whose network connected Africa with Asia. We also see walrus and extinct mammoth ivory being utilized throughout Asia - maritime (as well as overland) trade has been the main player in connecting cultures for millennia... Regards, Kai |
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13th February 2019, 05:27 PM
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#6 | |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,164
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Quote:
The good thing by this is that when you want to sell it one day that there are no CITES prohibition on it by international trade! Regards, Detlef |
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13th February 2019, 05:46 PM
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#7 | |
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Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,211
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Quote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8431751.html https://conservationaction.co.za/rec...kets-tanzania/ |
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13th February 2019, 06:08 PM
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#8 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
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Hello Detlef,
Quote:
Hippo sure is regulated: The common Hippo, Hippopotamus amphibius Linnaeus, 1758, is listed in Appendix II of the CITES convention. And some populations are even under stricter control. While antiques *should* be exempt, the truth is you have to follow international and local legislation & regulations to the letter... Regards, Kai |
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13th February 2019, 08:07 PM
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#9 | |
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Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,211
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13th February 2019, 08:38 PM
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#10 | |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,164
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13th February 2019, 08:52 PM
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#11 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,164
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Just read a little bit more, the trade with hippo ivory is free but need to be documented whatever this mean. But there seems to be regulations on it.
Regards, Detlef |
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14th February 2019, 11:20 AM
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#12 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
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Hello Detlef and David,
CITES primarily regulates international trade. But mind you, it's the national legislations which are trying to implement the international convention (and additional treaties) and, thus, the rules differ. Some of the CITES member states decided to surpass the international agreements for a variety of reasons or notions, for example the US with the complete import stop for African elephants (for whatever reason, hunting trophies can be exempt though if I remember correctly), or some US states with even stricter bans of intrastate sale. It is the paradox of the CITES approach that international trade shall be regulated while it does not touch national trade/utilization of the same organism: If there is no additional national legislation, you can legally buy any CITES-regulated creature at any local market and have it cooked at the next restaurant - you can't bring it into another country for conservation breeding purposes though (without doing all the official paperwork and obtaining CITES permits). Local consumption/utilization of natural resources is usually not the driving force for extinction; howeever, in larger countries even nation-wide trade can be just as devastating. Most countries have implemented legislation which also addresses use of natural resources within its borders; enforcement is much more likely to be insufficient though. Ironically, someone offering freshly-hunted hippo might have a relatively easy time in obtaining necessary papers. When Greg bought the keris, he probably did not got any receipt; even if there was a receipt, it probably would not be specific enough to allow positive identification. So, there probably is not any valid documentation (which is needed for the permits); of course, this is true for quite a large amount of antique collector's pieces. There are certain relaxations for fully worked craft but you still have to provide documentation. Even if you had all the needed papers and a valid reason for international transfer (depending on the respective appendix the source organism currently is listed in), the fees for obtaining certificates and permits may be pretty high compared to the price an average hilt in not-perfect condition might fetch. Yes, hippo can be commercially traded. It is regulated though and it may be tough to conform to all regulations. Be sure to seek for an update rather than just relying on "current" practises... Regards, Kai |
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13th February 2019, 05:35 PM
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#13 | |
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Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,211
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13th February 2019, 05:44 PM
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#14 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
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Quote:
 I wasn't positive though.   Regards,. Kai |
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