Filipino blade - what do I have here?

kai · 4th February 2019, 12:25 AM

Yes, will do, Robert!

Not keeping my breath though since this seems like a rather weird place for a soft metal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though!

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 4th February 2019, 10:51 AM

Hi Kai,

Just to throw another possibility into the mix. Chisel-edged blades were also made in Batangas, according to information provided a decade or more ago by our friend Zelbone. Finely carved horn hilts were also seen from there in the late 19th and early 20th C. Batangas is not far from Laguna de Pays, so I think that general area south of Manila is where your knife originated.

I think you have a Tagalog knife with some Visayan influence in the blade, and Batangas is an area where that overlap can occur.

Ian.

Battara · 7th February 2019, 02:55 AM

Ian I wondered about that influence myself.

kronckew · 9th February 2019, 06:20 AM

The 'peened tang' could be just a nail used to hold the pommel piece on, as is done on many khukuri. An x-ray would confirm or deny the tang type.

More cheaply, you might get some info by using a strong super-magnet, running it along the grip to feel if it 'pulls' all the way along.

I also note that a small circular hole thru the tang along the neutral axis does not significantly weaken the blade. The neutral axis is a line where the blade & tang under load is under compressive loading above, and tensile loading below. On the line, there is essentially zero loading. It runs along the centre line on a normal rectangular section.

RobT · 10th February 2019, 03:01 AM

Hi kai,
Before resorting to an x-ray as kronckew suggested, you might want to check for continuity first. Attach a wire lead to the blade and to one of the poles of a D cell. Attach another lead to the other D cell pole and to the suspected tang. Then touch the blade and the suspected tang with a circuit tester. If the circuit tester doesn't light, there is no continuity and you don't have to go any further. If there is continuity, then the piece on the pommel is either the tang or it is a metal pin that is in contact with the tang so an x-ray would then be necessary to determine which is which.

Sincerely,
RobT

Robert · 10th February 2019, 04:10 AM

I have had the opportunity on several occasions to remove the style of hilt shown in the original photos to make repairs. On every one of these the tang extended completely through the hilt before being peened. I have yet to see a single hilt of this exact style that had a hidden tang combined with a butt plate held in place with a separate fastener. There was one occasion though where I found that the tang had rusted completely through and the hilt was being held in place by a combination of rust buildup on the tang and shrinkage of the hilt material.

Best,
Robert

Ian · 10th February 2019, 05:21 AM

Agree with Robert. I have only seen full tang hilts that were peined over the plate.

Ian

9th February 2019, 06:20 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,238	The 'peened tang' could be just a nail used to hold the pommel piece on, as is done on many khukuri. An x-ray would confirm or deny the tang type. More cheaply, you might get some info by using a strong super-magnet, running it along the grip to feel if it 'pulls' all the way along. I also note that a small circular hole thru the tang along the neutral axis does not significantly weaken the blade. The neutral axis is a line where the blade & tang under load is under compressive loading above, and tensile loading below. On the line, there is essentially zero loading. It runs along the centre line on a normal rectangular section. Last edited by kronckew; 9th February 2019 at 06:31 AM.

10th February 2019, 03:01 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 563	Check for Continuity Hi kai, Before resorting to an x-ray as kronckew suggested, you might want to check for continuity first. Attach a wire lead to the blade and to one of the poles of a D cell. Attach another lead to the other D cell pole and to the suspected tang. Then touch the blade and the suspected tang with a circuit tester. If the circuit tester doesn't light, there is no continuity and you don't have to go any further. If there is continuity, then the piece on the pommel is either the tang or it is a metal pin that is in contact with the tang so an x-ray would then be necessary to determine which is which. Sincerely, RobT

4th February 2019, 12:25 AM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Yes, will do, Robert! Not keeping my breath though since this seems like a rather weird place for a soft metal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though! Regards, Kai

4th February 2019, 10:51 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Hi Kai, Just to throw another possibility into the mix. Chisel-edged blades were also made in Batangas, according to information provided a decade or more ago by our friend Zelbone. Finely carved horn hilts were also seen from there in the late 19th and early 20th C. Batangas is not far from Laguna de Pays, so I think that general area south of Manila is where your knife originated. I think you have a Tagalog knife with some Visayan influence in the blade, and Batangas is an area where that overlap can occur. Ian.

7th February 2019, 02:55 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Ian I wondered about that influence myself.

10th February 2019, 04:10 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I have had the opportunity on several occasions to remove the style of hilt shown in the original photos to make repairs. On every one of these the tang extended completely through the hilt before being peened. I have yet to see a single hilt of this exact style that had a hidden tang combined with a butt plate held in place with a separate fastener. There was one occasion though where I found that the tang had rusted completely through and the hilt was being held in place by a combination of rust buildup on the tang and shrinkage of the hilt material. Best, Robert

10th February 2019, 05:21 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Agree with Robert. I have only seen full tang hilts that were peined over the plate. Ian