Talismanic Devices and Imbuements on Islamic Arms

Jens Nordlunde · 30th January 2019, 10:14 AM

Here is the sickle with the three dots.
Detail from a tulwar blade. Mughal late 17th to early 18th century.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th January 2019, 01:22 PM

SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7138 where MATCHLOCK (RIP) placed a stunning article on the haquebus and showed three dots at #! on the 6th picture. BELOW

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th January 2019, 02:00 PM

More on the 3 dot structure using an image of an Afghanistan Pulwar ~

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th January 2019, 02:01 PM

More on the 3 dot structure using an image of an Islamic Gun at the cannon barrel end. ~

Norman McCormick · 30th January 2019, 02:09 PM

Hi,
Here's another configuration of the three dots. They are on a sword that I can only describe as an Indian style cutlass.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 30th January 2019, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
Here's another configuration of the three dots. They are on a sword that I can only describe as an Indian style cutlass.
Regards,
Norman.

Most tactfully and well described Norman

lest we stir another 'name game' debate!! It seems that the term may be well placed, given that the Marathas were known for their notable naval power.

Ibrahiim thank you for these further examples into use on guns in various contexts. It seems I recall in our findings that in many cases there were numbers of gold metal filled dots on the blades of early Islamic swords (varied in number) which were said to be talismans to bring luck.

With reference to the three dot configuration in European context, the heavy bladed swords with rebated blade tips typically used as 'bearing swords' (though often termed more nefariously) often had three holes at the tip of the blade. These have been explained as to be there to create a whistling in the stroke; to attach weights and not sure of what other fanciful purposes..however the representation of the Holy Trinity is most reasonable.

Curiously, heavy bladed swords in Africa claimed to be used in similar purpose in cases have had the same three holes in the same blade location.

Jens shows a great example of Mughal tulwar with the familiar sickle and three dots configuration, clearly copying the European mark well known on blades elsewhere in India in many instances.

fernando · 30th January 2019, 06:09 PM

If we look at "Armi Bianche Italiane" (Boccia/Coelho), we can see the dots "all over" such work. Curiously the authors care to add in index of all weapons illustrated in the book but i don't see any their assessment on the dots interpretation.

.

Jim McDougall · 30th January 2019, 10:38 PM

Excellent example Fernando, and Boccia & Coelho (1975) is an outstanding reference with comprehensive illustrations of these many known markings. As noted, there really are no details or insights into the symbolism imbued in any of them (or few) and these are realized as occurring on blades with period or regional attribution noted but not necessarily particular maker.

This suggests of course that these markings, in which configurations are often multiply used or in varying numbers ,are most likely renderings of certain devices or imbuements. We know that the 'Genoan' sickle (dentated arcs) marks were apparently some type of mark used in Genoa, or attributed to that city as a departure port for blades. The mark actually occurs on blades from other centers as well.

This I think was the reason the mark became so widely copied, as it noted 'quality' in these blades so widely traded, and just as with Toledo as well as Solingen/Passau that connotation prevailed.

30th January 2019, 10:14 AM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Here is the sickle with the three dots. Detail from a tulwar blade. Mughal late 17th to early 18th century. Attached Images

30th January 2019, 01:22 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7138 where MATCHLOCK (RIP) placed a stunning article on the haquebus and showed three dots at #! on the 6th picture. BELOW Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 30th January 2019 at 02:28 PM.

30th January 2019, 02:00 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	More on the 3 dot structure using an image of an Afghanistan Pulwar ~ Attached Images

30th January 2019, 02:01 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	More on the 3 dot structure using an image of an Islamic Gun at the cannon barrel end. ~ Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 30th January 2019 at 02:23 PM.

30th January 2019, 02:09 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,632	Hi, Here's another configuration of the three dots. They are on a sword that I can only describe as an Indian style cutlass. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

30th January 2019, 06:09 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	If we look at "Armi Bianche Italiane" (Boccia/Coelho), we can see the dots "all over" such work. Curiously the authors care to add in index of all weapons illustrated in the book but i don't see any their assessment on the dots interpretation. . Attached Images

30th January 2019, 10:38 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Excellent example Fernando, and Boccia & Coelho (1975) is an outstanding reference with comprehensive illustrations of these many known markings. As noted, there really are no details or insights into the symbolism imbued in any of them (or few) and these are realized as occurring on blades with period or regional attribution noted but not necessarily particular maker. This suggests of course that these markings, in which configurations are often multiply used or in varying numbers ,are most likely renderings of certain devices or imbuements. We know that the 'Genoan' sickle (dentated arcs) marks were apparently some type of mark used in Genoa, or attributed to that city as a departure port for blades. The mark actually occurs on blades from other centers as well. This I think was the reason the mark became so widely copied, as it noted 'quality' in these blades so widely traded, and just as with Toledo as well as Solingen/Passau that connotation prevailed.