Please some info about this keris

David Gallas · 23rd January 2019, 11:48 AM

I added some extra pictures...

David · 23rd January 2019, 05:20 PM

Wow! Thank you David, for that additional background and, of course, the much better photos. I like this keris even more now that i can get a good look at it. This is and old and beautiful keris IMHO and you are very fortunate to have become the present custodian of it.
Before i passed these new posts i did add to my first response more info about your hilt. I believe this "pot bellied" style of the planar Nunggak Semi hilt form is referred to as Narada Kandha. Now that i have seen better photos i can confirm that this is an older hilt that was nicely carved.
I can't name this pamor for you, but perhaps someone else will give it a shot. This is an old blade and there has certainly been some loss so it is harder to identify.
You are correct to identify the wrongko as Yogyakarta gayaman form. I am afraid that i do not know the answer to you question about color symbolism for Yogya kraton, but perhaps Alan Maisey might know the answer to this. On the color i see a lot of blue, but i believe that the background/base color of the sunggingan work might be closer to orange.
The pendok is unusual and beautiful. Is it possible that it might be suassa (a low gold content metal) because with the new photos it doesn't look like high gold content and seems have some tarnish which high content gold would not have.
My feeling about gold and silver parts on keris ensembles is that they are meant to shine. I know some collectors worry about removing "precious" patina. Bronze should have patina. Gold should be bright. So if this were in my care i would polish up this pendok and return it to its intended glory.
I am still not completely sure i see the combong. Is it a tiny little hole at the base of the pecetan that i think i can make out in the silhouette photo? If so i have never seen one so small. Interesting.
Thanks so much for sharing your story and this beautiful keris!

A. G. Maisey · 23rd January 2019, 07:42 PM

No David, I do not know the "colour code" for Yogyakarta sunggingan work.

I am unable to determine the motif used in the sunggingan work.

The "wish hole" looks very much like the gap we frequently find between wilah and gonjo, as such it cannot be regarded as a combong, however, as is common in matters of belief, an individual can always subscribe to his own beliefs.

David Gallus has told us that he is a goldsmith, so if he says this pendok is gold I fully believe that statement, however, if it has been tested as gold, may we know the level of purity?

On my screen this pendok looks very much like mamas and the embossing also looks as if it is work done in mamas.

David Gallas · 24th January 2019, 06:26 AM

Hi David, thnx for your replay. So the handle is Solo, Naranda Khanda? I know the east Javanese handles, but not for Yogja.
It also doesn't have that round from Yogja but more that edgy like Solo??
I'll upload some hilt forms, but my knowledge about handles is limited.

You are correct, the pendok and mendak needs some care! I'm going to test the pendok this afternoon to see what karat comes out.

Hi Mr Maisey. I cut gemstones and make rings out of it. I use the simple methode of a stone and 4 fluids, 8k, 14k, 18k and 21,5k.

I"ll do the test again this afternoon and upload the pictures of the result.

Kind regards

David

David · 25th January 2019, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Gallas

So the handle is Solo, Naranda Khanda? I know the east Javanese handles, but not for Yogja.
It also doesn't have that round from Yogja but more that edgy like Solo?

Yes David, i would say that given that small "knot" over the top cecekan that this hilt is probably of Surakarta origin.
Thanks for confirming the gold content of the pendok. Suassa is what i would call it at 8%. It is still a beautiful pendok no matter how much gold content there is.

A. G. Maisey · 25th January 2019, 07:32 AM

Yes, if it tests at 8K, that is OK for suwasa, actually, suwasa bubul.

Funny thing is though, the colour on my screen comes up like nickel silver, which would make it mamas.

I've only ever seen suwasa alloyed with copper, and then it comes up looking like rose gold. Peculiar.

Jean · 25th January 2019, 08:39 AM

Hello David,
The pamor pattern of your blade is difficult to identify with some certainty because it is scattered and significantly worn-out. One assumption would be pamor tambal (patch) but I would rather think that it used to be a full pamor pattern such as lar gangsir (cricket wings) but eroded with time. Other opinions are welcome.
Regarding the style of hilt, I agree that it probably originates from Solo but am not sure that it can be classified as Narada Kandha because of its unusual curved shape, see a more typical specimen.
Regards

David Gallas · 24th January 2019, 01:13 PM

Well i tested it and a little disappointing, it cannot be classified as gold! I was so convinced that it was gold because of the feel, silver and gold transport heat very well, and the colour, but gold can only be clasified as gold if it contains more than 50% gold!

I tested with 4 bottles, the right is 21.5k, then 18k, 14k and at the left 8k.
You can see that the three on the right disappeared so it must be under 14k.
Only the 8k stayed, so it could be >8k gold.

So metal pendok containing gold....

About gold, and i mainly work with rings, the official Indonesian gold is >21.5k what is absolutely not good for a ring, i'll post a ring and you can see that it is actual to soft. In Indonesia there are a lot of objects from silver in 72% that cannot be classified as silver but are totally genuine because that is the exact percentage of silver in the dutch coins. Also i see lots of rings in 14k gold, also the Dutch standard for gold, so probably made in order of someone who brought his own gold. I realy thought this would be 14k, but the test gives this result.
Suasa is possible because it is normaly 9k...

23rd January 2019, 11:48 AM	#1
David Gallas Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 24	some more pictures I added some extra pictures... Attached Images

24th January 2019, 06:26 AM	#4
David Gallas Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 24	keris info Hi David, thnx for your replay. So the handle is Solo, Naranda Khanda? I know the east Javanese handles, but not for Yogja. It also doesn't have that round from Yogja but more that edgy like Solo?? I'll upload some hilt forms, but my knowledge about handles is limited. You are correct, the pendok and mendak needs some care! I'm going to test the pendok this afternoon to see what karat comes out. Hi Mr Maisey. I cut gemstones and make rings out of it. I use the simple methode of a stone and 4 fluids, 8k, 14k, 18k and 21,5k. I"ll do the test again this afternoon and upload the pictures of the result. Kind regards David Attached Images

25th January 2019, 07:32 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Yes, if it tests at 8K, that is OK for suwasa, actually, suwasa bubul. Funny thing is though, the colour on my screen comes up like nickel silver, which would make it mamas. I've only ever seen suwasa alloyed with copper, and then it comes up looking like rose gold. Peculiar. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 25th January 2019 at 10:05 AM.

25th January 2019, 08:39 AM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello David, The pamor pattern of your blade is difficult to identify with some certainty because it is scattered and significantly worn-out. One assumption would be pamor tambal (patch) but I would rather think that it used to be a full pamor pattern such as lar gangsir (cricket wings) but eroded with time. Other opinions are welcome. Regarding the style of hilt, I agree that it probably originates from Solo but am not sure that it can be classified as Narada Kandha because of its unusual curved shape, see a more typical specimen. Regards Attached Images

24th January 2019, 01:13 PM	#8
David Gallas Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 24	test Well i tested it and a little disappointing, it cannot be classified as gold! I was so convinced that it was gold because of the feel, silver and gold transport heat very well, and the colour, but gold can only be clasified as gold if it contains more than 50% gold! I tested with 4 bottles, the right is 21.5k, then 18k, 14k and at the left 8k. You can see that the three on the right disappeared so it must be under 14k. Only the 8k stayed, so it could be >8k gold. So metal pendok containing gold.... About gold, and i mainly work with rings, the official Indonesian gold is >21.5k what is absolutely not good for a ring, i'll post a ring and you can see that it is actual to soft. In Indonesia there are a lot of objects from silver in 72% that cannot be classified as silver but are totally genuine because that is the exact percentage of silver in the dutch coins. Also i see lots of rings in 14k gold, also the Dutch standard for gold, so probably made in order of someone who brought his own gold. I realy thought this would be 14k, but the test gives this result. Suasa is possible because it is normaly 9k... Attached Images

23rd January 2019, 05:20 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,209	Wow! Thank you David, for that additional background and, of course, the much better photos. I like this keris even more now that i can get a good look at it. This is and old and beautiful keris IMHO and you are very fortunate to have become the present custodian of it. Before i passed these new posts i did add to my first response more info about your hilt. I believe this "pot bellied" style of the planar Nunggak Semi hilt form is referred to as Narada Kandha. Now that i have seen better photos i can confirm that this is an older hilt that was nicely carved. I can't name this pamor for you, but perhaps someone else will give it a shot. This is an old blade and there has certainly been some loss so it is harder to identify. You are correct to identify the wrongko as Yogyakarta gayaman form. I am afraid that i do not know the answer to you question about color symbolism for Yogya kraton, but perhaps Alan Maisey might know the answer to this. On the color i see a lot of blue, but i believe that the background/base color of the sunggingan work might be closer to orange. The pendok is unusual and beautiful. Is it possible that it might be suassa (a low gold content metal) because with the new photos it doesn't look like high gold content and seems have some tarnish which high content gold would not have. My feeling about gold and silver parts on keris ensembles is that they are meant to shine. I know some collectors worry about removing "precious" patina. Bronze should have patina. Gold should be bright. So if this were in my care i would polish up this pendok and return it to its intended glory. I am still not completely sure i see the combong. Is it a tiny little hole at the base of the pecetan that i think i can make out in the silhouette photo? If so i have never seen one so small. Interesting. Thanks so much for sharing your story and this beautiful keris!

23rd January 2019, 07:42 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	No David, I do not know the "colour code" for Yogyakarta sunggingan work. I am unable to determine the motif used in the sunggingan work. The "wish hole" looks very much like the gap we frequently find between wilah and gonjo, as such it cannot be regarded as a combong, however, as is common in matters of belief, an individual can always subscribe to his own beliefs. David Gallus has told us that he is a goldsmith, so if he says this pendok is gold I fully believe that statement, however, if it has been tested as gold, may we know the level of purity? On my screen this pendok looks very much like mamas and the embossing also looks as if it is work done in mamas.