Ambon Keris for interest

[Sajen]

Hello Greg,

agree with everything what Alan, David and Jean have written so far. Two things are not mentioned until now, the first is that Ambon don't have an own keris culture, so Ambon keris isn't a correct description but it isn't unusual to find keris in other parts of Indonesia, I've found for example a keris blade on Halmahera!
Secondly, yes the hilt is from ivory but to my eyes it don't look like elephant ivory but it look like sperm whale ivory.
To remove the hilt heat the blade with a candle or carefully with a hot air gun and try carefully to move the hilt left and right, like said, very carefully that the hilt or pesi (tang) don't break.

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Greg,

it would be preferable if you were to attach the pics to this site (any web hosting is bound to expire sooner or later and results in crippled threads).

Could you also add pics of the top and underside of the hilt, please?

Secondly, yes the hilt is from ivory but to my eyes it don't look like elephant ivory but it look like sperm whale ivory.

Hello Detlef, it may even be hippo...

Ambon don't have an own keris culture, so Ambon keris isn't a correct description but it isn't unusual to find keris in other parts of Indonesia, I've found for example a keris blade on Halmahera!

This is a keris Bugis and the Bugis established trade posts on the major spice islands. While Ambonese culture may not have fully embraced keris culture, it is very likely that the ruling elites also received keris as gifts. The Makassarese were very active on Sumbawa - were the local Moluccan rulers strong enough to ward off foreign influence more successfully? Ternate certainly was an important base of power.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef, it may even be hippo...

Hello Kai,

really don't think so! I miss the typical dot's in a line and the colour and patination is wrong for hippo ivory. And the marked white blotch seems to be typical for sperm whale!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

This is a keris Bugis and the Bugis established trade posts on the major spice islands. While Ambonese culture may not have fully embraced keris culture, it is very likely that the ruling elites also received keris as gifts. The Makassarese were very active on Sumbawa - were the local Moluccan rulers strong enough to ward off foreign influence more successfully? Ternate certainly was an important base of power.

Hello Kai,

I am familiar with the Moluccas history, my wife coming from Halmahera. While Ternate is traditional Muslim Ambon is mainly Christian. For sure there was trade by Bugis and like this the keris in question will has found it's way to Ambon but a keris gift for a Sultan would look different IMVHO. And I just stated that the Moluccas never have had a own keris culture and I think that this is a fact. So a description "Ambon" keris is a little bit misleading. Just my opinion!

Regards,
Detlef

[Larks]

A few more photos - it has cleaned up quite nicely and with interesting rose tint to the blade and I’m wondering if anyone can educate me on the chemistry of the steel composition used for keris forging. I am very interested in blacksmithing but am ignorant of what the makeup of these blades might be and what would influence the colour - i.e. might it have a bit of copper in the mix or would a high phosphorous content possibly contribute to the tint?

(Please excuse me while I fight with a slow connection and correct my photo loading )

[David]

Sorry to be so long away from this discussion. I mostly agree with what Kai has posted, though i am more with Detlef on the material of the hilt. Seem more likely Sperm whale than hippo.
On the topic of ivory, Kai touched on this, but i can't state more strongly that in trying to remove the hilt, which i agree is worth attempting, it is the ivory hilt that is more likely to break before the tang will, so do work slowly and carefully. No matter how nice it would be to remove this hilt it is not worth cracking or breaking it.
And when i first looked at your photos it was on my cellphone. After seeing the images larger i would agree with Kai that Sulawesi is a more likely origin.
Speaking of images you last ones did not seem to post. Please try again.

[Larks]

And some different views of the grip

[Rick]

Those dotted lines on the handle; Hippo tooth?

[kai]

i can't state more strongly that in trying to remove the hilt, which i agree is worth attempting, it is the ivory hilt that is more likely to break before the tang will, so do work slowly and carefully. No matter how nice it would be to remove this hilt it is not worth cracking or breaking it.

I agree with David here. Since the blade appears to be pretty old (easily 19th c., maybe older) the tang may also be on the fragile side of things. Thus, it is important to move ahead gently. It really can take weeks or months to get a really stubborn hilt moving.

However, I'd suggest to really keep trying to remove the hilt and clean the tang (pesi): There certainly is rust on the tang, too; and the vinegar treatment almost certainly brought moisture (at least humidity and vinegar vapour) into the base of the hilt which will increase the risk of faster rusting.

Regards,
Kai

[Larks]

Originally Posted by kai

I agree with David here. Since the blade appears to be pretty old (easily 19th c., maybe older) the tang may also be on the fragile side of things. Thus, it is important to move ahead gently. It really can take weeks or months to get a really stubborn hilt moving.

However, I'd suggest to really keep trying to remove the hilt and clean the tang (pesi): There certainly is rust on the tang, too; and the vinegar treatment almost certainly brought moisture (at least humidity and vinegar vapour) into the base of the hilt which will increase the risk of faster rusting.

Regards,
Kai

Understood Kai and I agree that the tang is likely to be quite heavily rusted. I’ll try again over the weekend but I agree how fragile the tang is likely to be, given the state of the blade before cleaning, so I am very wary of breaking it.

[kai]

Hello Greg,

A few more photos - it has cleaned up quite nicely and with interesting rose tint to the blade and I’m wondering if anyone can educate me on the chemistry of the steel composition used for keris forging. I am very interested in blacksmithing but am ignorant of what the makeup of these blades might be and what would influence the colour - i.e. might it have a bit of copper in the mix or would a high phosphorous content possibly contribute to the tint?

The iron sources (as well as iron ore origins) utilized in keris production are extremely diverse and often get traded from quite distant regions. There usually is a central layer of steel (resulting in an edge that can be hardened) which gets sandwiched between layers of very mild pamor steel (often laminated from 2 or more different irons which may show contrast upon etching).

I suspect that the rose color tinge originates from the copper leached from the selut. After disassembling, another short "wash" with vinegar will probably yield more neutral colors (it may be preferable to rub the blade with lemon or lime first)...

Regards,
Kai

[Larks]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Kai,

I am familiar with the Moluccas history, my wife coming from Halmahera. While Ternate is traditional Muslim Ambon is mainly Christian. For sure there was trade by Bugis and like this the keris in question will has found it's way to Ambon but a keris gift for a Sultan would look different IMVHO. And I just stated that the Moluccas never have had a own keris culture and I think that this is a fact. So a description "Ambon" keris is a little bit misleading. Just my opinion!

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlaf,

if I knew how to do it I would edit the title to read AMBON “SOURCED” KERIS FOR INTEREST. When I posted this thread I knew next to nothing about this Keris other than where I found it and nothing about Keris in general and as I mentioned in my initial post I had acquired it from a local private household so I simply had no reason to think it was anything but local to the area.

However the wonderful responses and the interest in this Keris have opened my eyes to a whole new world of information and interest and I am quite amazed at the level and depth of knowledge and just how much there is to learn about these amazing artefacts. I continue to read with great interest and am lapping up any information that I can absorb.

cheers
Greg

[Sajen]

Hi Greg,

I am short by time right now since I need to work now. But I have to correct my further post and have to agree now with Kai after I've seen your new pictures. There are clearly visible a line of black dots in a line so the handle material is indeed from hippo ivory.
Don't worry about your title, I only want to state that Ambon don't has had an own keris culture.

Best regards,
Detlef