Boabdil swords and Jineta

Kubur · 14th January 2019, 03:11 PM

I'm interested by both, names and shapes.
Without names and vocabulary it's difficult to differenciate diffrent models.

RAMBA · 27th September 2019, 10:19 PM

Auction description - "An unusual long straight possibly Islamic sword with elephant heads on its handle sides and possibly Arabic writing on blade"

This sword sold at auction recently and I was wondering if it is in fact a Jineta from Granada, Spain from the Moorish rule period or a later Victorian interpretation?

Philip · 27th September 2019, 10:28 PM

It gives the impression of being a later interpretation: if Victorian era then British India may be a possibility considering the ellyfunts. My recollection of Moorish art is that such depictions of animals tends to be quite out-of-place in the tradition. Which makes an anomaly such as the sculptures in the Court of Lions at the Alhambra in Granada so much more remarkable.

fernando · 27th September 2019, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

... Which makes an anomaly such as the sculptures in the Court of Lions at the Alhambra in Granada so much more remarkable.

fernando · 29th September 2019, 05:31 PM

I know this sword was already posted here but (i guess), the previous time there was no identity to it and, as i have just visited its residence (Toledo Army Mueum) i am posting it together with a humble transcription of the caption.

"THIS LUXURY SWORD IS ATTRIBUTED TO ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL MILITARY LEADERS OF THE NASRID PERIOD; ALI ATAR, WHO WAS ALCAIDE (MAYOR) OF LOJA AND BOABDIL’S FATHER IN LAW, THE LAST KING OF GRANADA. ACCORDING TO HISTORIOGRAPHIC TRADITION, THE CABALLERO LUCAS HURTADO HAS SNATCHED THE SWORD FROM ALI ATAR WHILST HE WAS FALLING DEATH DURING THE COURSE OF THE BATTLE OF LUCENA (21ST. APRIL 1483)".

Do i see a Moorish smith mark on the blade ?

.

Philip · 29th September 2019, 06:50 PM

Nando, the image does hint at Arabic calligraphy within the cartouche. Isn't it so frustrating to see something in a museum and either the lighting or the visual angle (behind glass, no less) stand in the way of a good photo?

fernando · 29th September 2019, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Nando, the image does hint at Arabic calligraphy within the cartouche. Isn't it so frustrating to see something in a museum and either the lighting or the visual angle (behind glass, no less) stand in the way of a good photo?

Added by a lousy photographer, with a lousy camera, Filipe

.
... and the cartouche/mark is actually rather faded, by the way.

27th September 2019, 10:19 PM	#2
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 102	Auction description - "An unusual long straight possibly Islamic sword with elephant heads on its handle sides and possibly Arabic writing on blade" This sword sold at auction recently and I was wondering if it is in fact a Jineta from Granada, Spain from the Moorish rule period or a later Victorian interpretation? Attached Images

29th September 2019, 05:31 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I know this sword was already posted here but (i guess), the previous time there was no identity to it and, as i have just visited its residence (Toledo Army Mueum) i am posting it together with a humble transcription of the caption. "THIS LUXURY SWORD IS ATTRIBUTED TO ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL MILITARY LEADERS OF THE NASRID PERIOD; ALI ATAR, WHO WAS ALCAIDE (MAYOR) OF LOJA AND BOABDIL’S FATHER IN LAW, THE LAST KING OF GRANADA. ACCORDING TO HISTORIOGRAPHIC TRADITION, THE CABALLERO LUCAS HURTADO HAS SNATCHED THE SWORD FROM ALI ATAR WHILST HE WAS FALLING DEATH DURING THE COURSE OF THE BATTLE OF LUCENA (21ST. APRIL 1483)". Do i see a Moorish smith mark on the blade ? . Attached Images

14th January 2019, 03:11 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I'm interested by both, names and shapes. Without names and vocabulary it's difficult to differenciate diffrent models.

27th September 2019, 10:28 PM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	It gives the impression of being a later interpretation: if Victorian era then British India may be a possibility considering the ellyfunts. My recollection of Moorish art is that such depictions of animals tends to be quite out-of-place in the tradition. Which makes an anomaly such as the sculptures in the Court of Lions at the Alhambra in Granada so much more remarkable.

29th September 2019, 06:50 PM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Nando, the image does hint at Arabic calligraphy within the cartouche. Isn't it so frustrating to see something in a museum and either the lighting or the visual angle (behind glass, no less) stand in the way of a good photo?