Bulgarian or Afghan knife?

rumpel9 · 7th January 2019, 05:17 PM

Teodor, Dmitriy, thank you for your opinion.

Saracen · 7th January 2019, 05:48 PM

Оформление рукояти очень характерно для ножей из Сараево. Босния и Герцеговина.
С белой рукоятью называют аккулак.

The hilt design is very characteristic of knives from Sarajevo. Bosnia and Herzegovina.
With a white grip called Akkulak

mariusgmioc · 7th January 2019, 06:18 PM

In my opinion it is clearly a small Balkan yataghan.

Kubur · 7th January 2019, 06:21 PM

in my opinion its an algerian iflissen yatagan

ariel · 8th January 2019, 01:28 AM

Balkan.
I have an early Algerean flissa that is very much yataghan-like, but the differences are obvious.
Balkan karakulaks are massive and kind of crude, while Algerean are more elegant and carry elements that later on migrated to full-fledged flissas: doghead pommel of the handle, deeply carved blade decorations and very pointy and sharp tip..

I tend to believe that both stemmed from a classical Ottoman yataghan, but the interpretations were very different.

Top: Balkan ( likely Bulgarian) Karakulak, with Cyrillic initials and date “1838”

Bottom: early Algerian flissa.

Kubur · 8th January 2019, 10:14 AM

Well I didn't say flissa,
I wrote yatagan from the iflissen, Algerian copies of Balkan / Turkish yatagans...
the last one is the yataganish, some of them don't have any engravings or cooper inlays
look at the hilt of the second one...

ariel · 8th January 2019, 12:42 PM

Thanks for the pics. They clearly show examples of Algerean “yataghans” from Iflissen in their varieties and support the notion that they are very distinct from Balkan karakulaks ( ot Ak-kulaks if the handle was made from a light material, as in case of Rumpel9’s example).
There is a short but nice segment in Elgood’s Balkan book about magic properties of black handles, as opposed to any other variety.

Sword and knife making was the one of the main occupations of the Iflissen el-Bahr, or in French rendition Flissa-sur- mer.

ariel · 8th January 2019, 12:52 PM

If we are already discussing this topic, allow me to digress a little. The peculiar structure of full-blown flissas, with their disproportionally long and thin point suggest stabbing action. Was it a preferred way of their usage among the Kabyles?

They remind Tatar-Circassian sabers popularly known as Ordynkas, where stabbing action was specifically mentioned , as well as Laz Bichaqs that were clearly unfit for that purpose (or any other:-))

Kubur · 9th January 2019, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks for the pics. They clearly show examples of Algerean “yataghans” from Iflissen in their varieties and support the notion that they are very distinct from Balkan karakulaks ( ot Ak-kulaks if the handle was made from a light material, as in case of Rumpel9’s example).
There is a short but nice segment in Elgood’s Balkan book about magic properties of black handles, as opposed to any other variety.

Stop the fire Ariel, I'm convinced.
But I've seen some Algerian yataghan without cooper inlays and without pointed blade.
I confirm there is NO chainmail in Morocco-Algeria for the 19th c.

8th January 2019, 01:28 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Balkan. I have an early Algerean flissa that is very much yataghan-like, but the differences are obvious. Balkan karakulaks are massive and kind of crude, while Algerean are more elegant and carry elements that later on migrated to full-fledged flissas: doghead pommel of the handle, deeply carved blade decorations and very pointy and sharp tip.. I tend to believe that both stemmed from a classical Ottoman yataghan, but the interpretations were very different. Top: Balkan ( likely Bulgarian) Karakulak, with Cyrillic initials and date “1838” Bottom: early Algerian flissa. Attached Images

8th January 2019, 10:14 AM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Well I didn't say flissa, I wrote yatagan from the iflissen, Algerian copies of Balkan / Turkish yatagans... the last one is the yataganish, some of them don't have any engravings or cooper inlays look at the hilt of the second one... Attached Images

7th January 2019, 05:17 PM	#1
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	Teodor, Dmitriy, thank you for your opinion.

7th January 2019, 05:48 PM	#2
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Оформление рукояти очень характерно для ножей из Сараево. Босния и Герцеговина. С белой рукоятью называют аккулак. The hilt design is very characteristic of knives from Sarajevo. Bosnia and Herzegovina. With a white grip called Akkulak

7th January 2019, 06:18 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	In my opinion it is clearly a small Balkan yataghan.

7th January 2019, 06:21 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	in my opinion its an algerian iflissen yatagan

8th January 2019, 12:42 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks for the pics. They clearly show examples of Algerean “yataghans” from Iflissen in their varieties and support the notion that they are very distinct from Balkan karakulaks ( ot Ak-kulaks if the handle was made from a light material, as in case of Rumpel9’s example). There is a short but nice segment in Elgood’s Balkan book about magic properties of black handles, as opposed to any other variety. Sword and knife making was the one of the main occupations of the Iflissen el-Bahr, or in French rendition Flissa-sur- mer.

8th January 2019, 12:52 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	If we are already discussing this topic, allow me to digress a little. The peculiar structure of full-blown flissas, with their disproportionally long and thin point suggest stabbing action. Was it a preferred way of their usage among the Kabyles? They remind Tatar-Circassian sabers popularly known as Ordynkas, where stabbing action was specifically mentioned , as well as Laz Bichaqs that were clearly unfit for that purpose (or any other:-))