![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,211
|
![]() Quote:
1. that Sumatran keris are generally not over 37cm. 2. that the tikel alis is a sign that the keris may be North Coast Jawa. Both my keris and the keris now in Gustav's care seem to carry these two traits. Does it discount a Sumatran origin? You have added some other indicators that might place a keris in either North Coast Jawa or West Java. 1. I can see what might be a gentle curve in the gandik in the OP keris. Mine might also, though if it does the curve is even more subtle. 2. I am uncertain about boto rubuh in my case, though it certainly does not seem to be a standing brick. So here are the rest of the photos of my keris. I see many similarities stylistically to the OP keris, but this, of course, does not necessarily mean they are of the same geographical origin. Last edited by David; 19th December 2018 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Correcting a metric faux pas. ;) |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,991
|
![]()
David, the points that I listed were not intended as indicators, but rather as "anti-indicators".
What I was trying to say was that these are things that I understand as being inarguably true, and that if I accept them as inarguably true, then it becomes pretty close to impossible for me to form an opinion in respect of Gustav's blade from only a picture. I would consider your blade as having that slight curve in the face of the gandhik. Is your blumbangan horizontally elongated? I am unable to form an opinion. If I were to be shown a photo of a section of blade and asked where the blade might have come from, based on only the nature of the pamor, I think I would probably say East Jawa. Show me only the gandhik I would say West Jawa to North Coast. Blumbangan only, West Jawa to North Coast. Greneng, anywhere across Jawa. The tikel alis is what in Central Jawa is known as an old style tikel alis, not related to a geographic location, but related to period in time. Jean's 37mm parameter is not one that I can have an opinion upon either one way or the other, I have never seen a sufficient number of keris blades that were definitely of Sumatran manufacture to be able to establish any sort of length parameter. Your keris and Gustav's keris look very similar in the photos, neither keris appears to be particularly old, they are both in dress that in your case looks definitely Palembang, in Gustav's case it seems as if it could be Palembang. Two very similar keris, both in dress that seems to be able to be related to the same area? I don't know what I am looking at. I could come up with several hypotheticals, but I'm not going to do that because in my mind these constructed explanations really serve no purpose except to confuse. Based upon what I believe I can see in these photographs I am unable to provide a supportable opinion on the origin of either of these blades, there are too many unknowns. As a complete keris there can be no doubt that your keris is Palembang, but knowing what we do about the blades used in Palembang keris, is it possible to be certain that either your blade or Gustav's were actually made in Palembang? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
![]()
Thank you David for showing us the full blade.... Its overall shape (angle of the ganja especially) looks different from the typical long blades from Java North Coast.
I attach the pic of a Palembang kris with a rather similar blade but only 25 cm long. Regards |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,273
|
![]()
David, here a picture of a kris, which was presented to George IV when Prince Regent by Stamford Raffles, 10 May 1817. No measurements, yet it could be smaller then yours - but exactly these straight S-Sumatra Keris with the same Ricikan are often longer then 38 cm.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,273
|
![]()
Mine is a bit different animal. Now I understand, it could come from West Java - a search shows, how much S-Sumatra, in fact whole Sumatra and Malay Peninsula, was at an earlier time period influenced by North/West Java (later by Central Java). The Java Demam hilt form originates there, perhaps even the typical S-Sumatran bell-like Selut.
From what I understand at the moment and am able to see, the blade could be earlier then 1800, the dress perhaps before 1850. The same pictures in correct orientation. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,255
|
![]()
Hello Gustav,
Congrats, that's a great catch! Quote:
What about the inlay? Any translations forthcoming? (Close-ups would certainly help.) The hilt really seems to be one of those one-offs that clearly exhibit Chinese taste and probably got commissioned for wear by a Peranakan (which doesn't help in placing the ensemble since this could be just about any trading port throughout the archipelago as already mentioned). IMVHO, the scabbard seems to be the best bet in placing the ensemble. Regards, Kai |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,273
|
![]()
Kai, thank you.
the revision of the edge seems to have been repeated a couple of times. The Odo-Odo is quite out of center at the second Luk. I would say, the blade there originally was still 3 cm wide. And, just to illustrate the subject I wrote about in my last post, a riddle for all viewers - from where originates this Keris? The smaller picture is a picture from a booklet by Solyom about a Lampung exhibition. Try to pigeonhole one of them and you will get nightmares. Speaking about that region (N/W Java - S Sumatra) you can be sure of very little. Last edited by Gustav; 19th December 2018 at 02:16 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,211
|
![]() Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|