Whydah Galley

[fernando]

Information may be gathered everywhere. We may find unreliable data in whatever sources ... including books. Naturaly (authors) published conclusions are more subject to doubt than period photos or testimonies; conclusions being left to oneself. As in what concerns this topic subject(s) we are hardly acquainted to those who have witnessed such saga episodes, the available resources being based on chronicles and other written material. On the other hand we have the language barrier. It is obvious that the Portuguese played a lead role in the slavery trade and consequently we find plenty written mterial in the Portuguese Web; actually more than one would expect. However posting it here would not be a feasible option, so one tends to spot useful info in english ... Wikepedia being a contingency.
What i have gathered and posted here was (also) picked from Academia, Museums, Blogs and other sources like Listverse (author Mark Oliver) as some parts extracted from Portuguese material. I have also cared, from among tons of info detected, not to post details which would slip to an area that might be susceptible to excessively widen the scope of the theme in discussion ... so to say.
In the slavery 'branch' of our conversation, personaly i don't mind accepting that, some part of my DNA mitocondrial lineage (fine terms) might be associated to North African Berbere slaves. At a certain stage, the number of slaves in Southern Portugal represented 10% of the population; in 1550, from the 100 000 Lisbon inhabitants, 10 000 were slaves; and in 1620 they still held a 6% score (acc. to Scientific researchers Luisa Pereira and Filipa M.Ribeiro, a fascinating work in my mini library on the Portuguese Genetic Patrimony.
As this discussion continues, i regret having offered my daughter the manilha that i bought at Rainer Daehnhardt's (now closed) shop; i have to see if she accepts to give it back to me ... not excluding a good tip .
The guy in the bronze plate is an European, seeking slaves to trade; not the (African) Pumbeiro (or Pombeiro, from the Kimbundo dialect "kipombo") the one that conducts slaves from the interior to the coast, to trade with European dealers, as we can see in this illustration that is surely close from reality.
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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Information may be gathered everywhere. We may find unreliable data in whatever sources ... including books. Naturaly (authors) published conclusions are more subject to doubt than period photos or testimonies; conclusions being left to oneself. As in what concerns this topic subject(s) we are hardly acquainted to those who have witnessed such saga episodes, the available resources being based on chronicles and other written material. On the other hand we have the language barrier. It is obvious that the Portuguese played a lead role in the slavery trade and consequently we find plenty written mterial in the Portuguese Web; actually more than one would expect. However posting it here would not be a feasible option, so one tends to spot useful info in english ... Wikepedia being a contingency.
What i have gathered and posted here was (also) picked from Academia, Museums, Blogs and other sources like Listverse (author Mark Oliver) as some parts extracted from Portuguese material. I have also cared, from among tons of info detected, not to post details which would slip to an area that might be susceptible to excessively widen the scope of the theme in discussion ... so to say.
In the slavery 'branch' of our conversation, personaly i don't mind accepting that, some part of my DNA mitocondrial lineage (fine terms) might be associated to North African Berbere slaves. At a certain stage, the number of slaves in Southern Portugal represented 10% of the population; in 1550, from the 100 000 Lisbon inhabitants, 10 000 were slaves; and in 1620 they still held a 6% score (acc. to Scientific researchers Luisa Pereira and Filipa M.Ribeiro, a fascinating work in my mini library on the Portuguese Genetic Patrimony.
As this discussion continues, i regret having offered my daughter the manilha that i bought at Rainer Daehnhardt's (now closed) shop; i have to see if she accepts to give it back to me ... not excluding a good tip .
The guy in the bronze plate is an European, seeking slaves to trade; not the (African) Pumbeiro (or Pombeiro, from the Kimbundo dialect "kipombo") the one that conducts slaves from the interior to the coast, to trade with European dealers, as we can see in this illustration that is surely close from reality.
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Very well noted and key perspective to the kind of approach all students of arms should take in research, investigation and discussion. The knowledge which can be shared and developed in such contexts is phenomenal as can be seen in many threads over the years here.

[fernando]

[fernando]

So my daughter decided to return our manilha without having to be compensated; she will, all the same .
Now that i see it again at naked eye i find it rather interesting and ... who knows, of a pattern locally made, before European contact; note the shape and decoration. But that would be too good to be true.
Too closed to be used as a bracelet, though.

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[Jim McDougall]

In my opinion this example is most likely native made as these crossed line motifs are it seems a commonly seen motif on various material culture in tribal regions. I don't think the size to be worn on the wrist is a requirement and that the shape was more of importance. It would be hard to determine if of age to assert pre European contact, but it is certainly quite old.

[fernando]

I have not yet let fall this subject into the emptiness of oblivion, myself. Too much of Portuguese involvement in that, by reading a few pages of (dark) history, one can not remain imperturbable ...

Picking mark's wondering in post #25:
"Getting back to the Whydah, which was taken by Bellamy off of West Africa, the bronze 'anklets' were to be used for trade, but never made it to the 'Coite Ivor', instead lingering in the hold until a hurricane took the ship off Wellfleet."
Food for thought. According to Alex Johnson (Published: May 25, 2018) the Whydah set her sails and left London in 1716, hunging left past Portugal and pointing her bow toward Africa, starting her pray of locals and buying imprisoned slaves all the way down to Ajudá (Ouidah). After having completed his sordid business, her captain Lawrence Prince took the Middle Passage to the Caribbean with his human cargo.
So we may take it as logic that the manilhas did make it to their destination, with which Prince made his acquisitions. What we may infer is that, given that the number of manilhas maintained aboard was so large, the ones found in the wreck were stock left overs.
Numbers of these things at stake, as recorded, were so huge that this would be no surprise. Enough to say that are records of a contract between the Portuguese government and Erasmus Schetz of Antwerp, who supplied the Portuguese factory at Mina (Ghana) with as many as 150,000 manilhas per year. Alright, this was happening one or two centuries before, but still,

Going back to Mark in his post #11:
I decided to purchase a couple of old bronze manilla as a tip of the hat to the African slaves who gained their freedom through piracy!
Have you finally acquired them, Captain ?
Well, i did; first an example with reduced dimensions (later period ?) and another one already bought and coming in after Christmas.

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[M ELEY]

Hi, 'Nando. Sorry, have been away from the Forum. Mine looks exactly like the smaller example you posted (on the left). This turned into quite an interesting and informative post!