Help to identifying a type of (British) sword

[Jim McDougall]

BONK!!!!
Teodor….brilliant!!!! How did we miss that ?

That is indeed the Afghan state crest , the Mosque at Mazir I Sharif!

Afghanistan it is.

[Belgian1]

Waaaaw !!!!! Congratulations Teodor ;-)

Hi Theodor, congratulations for your discovery !!!!! :-) I think you changed a big question mark into a beautiful discovery :-)

Great !!!!!
Respect from Belgium ;-)

[Belgian1]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

BONK!!!!
Teodor….brilliant!!!! How did we miss that ?

That is indeed the Afghan state crest , the Mosque at Mazir I Sharif!

Afghanistan it is.

It's great your sharing of knowledge and your research. This is all "the essence" of an interesting Forum that is powered by interesting members. I congratulate you all for your constructive contributions.
Thanks and bravo once again !!!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Belgian1

It's great your sharing of knowledge and your research. This is all "the essence" of an interesting Forum that is powered by interesting members. I congratulate you all for your constructive contributions.
Thanks and bravo once again !!!

Thank you very much Belgian!

[Ian]

The Afghan attribution seems to be correct. This afternoon I was sent pictures of a similar sword by one of the many sword enthusiasts who come to this site anonymously. The sword has the mark of the Afghan armory as well, and shows similar deep chiseling along the blade. The pictures were sent to me with a note that this is a late 19th C. Afghan officer's sword.

Perhaps this thread might be better served in the Ethno Forum.



Ian.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ian

... Perhaps this thread might be better served in the Ethno Forum ...

And why not ?

[Belgian1]

Hello Ivan,
Tank you for these very interesting photos that allow more and more to attribute this sword to an Officer of the Army of the Sultanate of Afghanistan under the reign of Abdur Rahman Khan (1880-1901).
I posted this request for information in this "European" section because I thought it was a British sword for Service in Middle East British possessions. But in fact, this post should now be in a "more oriental" section because we are normally sure that is Afghan sword for high rank officer of Abdur Rahman Khan Army.
On my side I found these photos in an Internet Forum.

For sabers of officers of the Army of the Sultanate of Afghanistan, it seems that there are European blades with European engravings, European blades with Afghan engravings, and local blades with local engravings. I imagine that as everywhere, it was a question of prestige and financial means to possess one or the other provenance ...
(Sorry for any copyrighted photos, but this is for non-commercial information, and these swords do not have patented invention requirements.) But I still thank the authors.

[Hotspur]

Etched, not engraved.

[Hotspur]

Foot in mouth?

Enjoy
GC

The Emirate of Afghanistan 1823-1926
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...926%29.svg.png

most similar but still missing the middle flag
1901-1919 with cannon and swords
I still don't see it as true
The thing is that none higher would be a very Muslim thing and certainly, a flag would not be. Whatever.

[TVV]

GC,

I agree with you that this is not a European sword blade, and most definitely not a Wilkinson blade. The Afghans were very adept at making copies, there are articles on this forum explaining how they were able to reverse engineer Martinis and even Mauser C96s. The one thing they did not always get quite right were the European markings, as the craftsmen copying those simply did not understand them.

What I see here is an interesting Afghan military sword, made most likely in the early 20th century. To me this is an example of local craftsmanship and outside (in this particular instance British) influence in a time, when the Afghan army was transitioning and modernizing. A search in the ethnographic section will produce examples of the Mosque at Mazar-i-Sharif marking applied to traditional Afghan arms, if I remember correctly to denote that they belonged to the Khan's arsenal in Kabul.

Teodor

[Hotspur]

I agree with you that this is not a European sword blade

...................and sorry, I would not agree it is a native Afghani made sword. That opinion based on the elements I have outlined.

Cheers
GC

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

...................and sorry, I would not agree it is a native Afghani made sword. That opinion based on the elements I have outlined.

Cheers
GC

Not agreeing is perfectly fine, no need to apologize. One needs to consider all possible scenarios.

I have seen Afghan shashkas with Toledo made blades (early 20th century Toledo manufacture) and so it is entirely possible that this is a European made blade. One would expect to see some manufacturer's marks on a European blade though.

Is it also possible that someone in China decided to make a copy of a British sword, but for whatever reason copied from an old Afghan military sword, which would be quite funny, and also unlikely, at least in my opinion.

Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by TVV

GC,

I agree with you that this is not a European sword blade, and most definitely not a Wilkinson blade. The Afghans were very adept at making copies, there are articles on this forum explaining how they were able to reverse engineer Martinis and even Mauser C96s. The one thing they did not always get quite right were the European markings, as the craftsmen copying those simply did not understand them.

What I see here is an interesting Afghan military sword, made most likely in the early 20th century. To me this is an example of local craftsmanship and outside (in this particular instance British) influence in a time, when the Afghan army was transitioning and modernizing. A search in the ethnographic section will produce examples of the Mosque at Mazar-i-Sharif marking applied to traditional Afghan arms, if I remember correctly to denote that they belonged to the Khan's arsenal in Kabul.

Teodor

Exactly!! Perfectly explained and 100% agree. The skills of the Afghans in arms production is astonishing.........and as noted, many arms are well made copies but the markings often are readily discernible as non authentic.