giant tenegre

blindside · 12th September 2018, 04:30 PM

The difference in lighting and contrast really changed the characteristics of that pommel face, it went from smiling to a malevolent grin.

Battara · 14th September 2018, 07:49 PM

Here is a picture of a similar piece (letter A) alongside other Visayan pieces for size comparison.

Picture comes from Migueldiaz.

Roland_M · 15th September 2018, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Here is a picture of a similar piece (letter A) alongside other Visayan pieces for size comparison.

Picture comes from Migueldiaz.

Thank you for the picture, that's interesting. It seems, that these oversized blades are not too unusual.

I started immediately to grind and polish my Tenegre and 2/3 of the backside are already grinded. The steel is of outstanding quality, very well laminated, tough, hard and difficult to grind manually. Corrosion and pitting are very even spread and this is always a very good sign. It is also ever and ever again fascinating, that a grinded blade looks much bigger than in corroded condition.
My sword saw very intense combat and the warrior who owned it, was surely a famous one. It took a man like Dan Inosanto to control this sword. This sword is ideal to open a gap in enemys lines, like the European Bidenhander. It is impressive in every detail, the hilt, the weight, the balance, the sharpness and quality of craftmanship.

Perhaps I will make some pictures for the forum when it is done, in a few weeks of constantly working.

Roland

Rafngard · 15th September 2018, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

My sword saw very intense combat and the warrior who owned it, was surely a famous one. It took a man like Dan Inosanto to control this sword.

A side comment to the Tenegre (which is, btw, amazing).

I study Filipino martial arts and I've had the pleasure of attending Guro Dan Inosanto's seminars a few times; he comes to my school twice a year. The man is amazing. Though in his 80s, he often moves faster than my eyes can see.

That said, he is a rather short and slender man. While I have no doubt he could something like this, he might still opt for something smaller. Or he might not. Who knows.

Either way, I hope I'm on his side ;-)

Have fun,
Leif

Roland_M · 22nd September 2018, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafngard

A side comment to the Tenegre (which is, btw, amazing).

I study Filipino martial arts and I've had the pleasure of attending Guro Dan Inosanto's seminars a few times; he comes to my school twice a year. The man is amazing. Though in his 80s, he often moves faster than my eyes can see.

That said, he is a rather short and slender man. While I have no doubt he could something like this, he might still opt for something smaller. Or he might not. Who knows.

Either way, I hope I'm on his side ;-)

Have fun,
Leif

I would give a lot for a seminar with Mr. Inosanto. Because of him and his videos on Youtube I learned Escrima with two sticks together.

The backside of the Tenegre is done. I made the first staining a few minutes ago. And my strange feeling was right. I hardly can believe it and if i am not totaly wrong, the blade is made of a massive piece of 1kg wootz! A very fine wootz. I took the picture with my cellphone, under precariuos light conditions, in reality it is much more beautiful.

Roland

Ian · 23rd September 2018, 02:05 AM

Dear Roland:

Your observation that this may be a wootz blade is very interesting, but I think it is unlikely. I would like to see clearer pictures of the pattern, which in places appears (to my eyes) to show lamination. There are (almost) no examples of wootz being used among the Muslim groups of the southern Philippines, and those one or two that have been reported may not have been true wootz. There is no clear evidence that wootz was actually made in the Philippines, or the wider Malay world as far as I know.

Is it possible that you are looking at another form of crucible steel with dendritic features, such as a piece of Spanish steel that has been repurposed? The technical details of wootz are outside my field, so I shall defer to those with more expertise.

I will say, however, that the historical evidence of Philippine edged weapons made from wootz is scant to non-existent. Laminated blades are the norm, with later monosteel.

Regards,

Ian.

Roland_M · 24th September 2018, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I will say, however, that the historical evidence of Philippine edged weapons made from wootz is scant to non-existent. Laminated blades are the norm, with later monosteel.

Regards,

Ian.

Hello Ian,

what looks like laminations is a result of intense hammering of the cutting edge and differential hardening. I have no further pictures of the Tenegre right now but i have a picture which shows similar lines on a Persian Khorasani blade. More about wootz here: https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/am...tr/ib_5_1.html
I think the raw-material was made and prepared (hammering, rolling) in India.
More pictures of the Tenegre, when i can demonstrate it without doubt, that we see wootz.

Roland

CCUAL · 18th October 2018, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Dear Roland:

Your observation that this may be a wootz blade is very interesting, but I think it is unlikely. I would like to see clearer pictures of the pattern, which in places appears (to my eyes) to show lamination. There are (almost) no examples of wootz being used among the Muslim groups of the southern Philippines, and those one or two that have been reported may not have been true wootz. There is no clear evidence that wootz was actually made in the Philippines, or the wider Malay world as far as I know.

Is it possible that you are looking at another form of crucible steel with dendritic features, such as a piece of Spanish steel that has been repurposed? The technical details of wootz are outside my field, so I shall defer to those with more expertise.

I will say, however, that the historical evidence of Philippine edged weapons made from wootz is scant to non-existent. Laminated blades are the norm, with later monosteel.

Regards,

Ian.

Again, that doesn't mean that you have not seen though out your old collecting years it does not exist. India for example are very fun of creating this steel, and their just a neighboring country of PI. In fact their are bunch of them there now practicing 5-6.

Who knows, may be when they came to PI's southern part specially to teach Mohammedanism, what made you think that they did not bring any of their good stuff? wootz steel in particular? You need to scout the entire PI which for sure you have not done - then and now.., and then, you can make this conclusive statements like you just did.

large headed nails:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...highlight=moro

14th September 2018, 07:49 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	Here is a picture of a similar piece (letter A) alongside other Visayan pieces for size comparison. Picture comes from Migueldiaz. Attached Images

12th September 2018, 04:30 PM	#1
blindside Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 33	The difference in lighting and contrast really changed the characteristics of that pommel face, it went from smiling to a malevolent grin.

23rd September 2018, 02:05 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,360	Dear Roland: Your observation that this may be a wootz blade is very interesting, but I think it is unlikely. I would like to see clearer pictures of the pattern, which in places appears (to my eyes) to show lamination. There are (almost) no examples of wootz being used among the Muslim groups of the southern Philippines, and those one or two that have been reported may not have been true wootz. There is no clear evidence that wootz was actually made in the Philippines, or the wider Malay world as far as I know. Is it possible that you are looking at another form of crucible steel with dendritic features, such as a piece of Spanish steel that has been repurposed? The technical details of wootz are outside my field, so I shall defer to those with more expertise. I will say, however, that the historical evidence of Philippine edged weapons made from wootz is scant to non-existent. Laminated blades are the norm, with later monosteel. Regards, Ian.