Arab? Musket

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Kubur,
If you read Lofty's post carefully, he does not say that this gun is Kuwaiti, but rather that they ended up in Kuwait as well as other places, and originated from India amongst other places.
Stu

I did but your second photo convinced me that I might be wrong.
The thin and curve butt plate is very similar to the gun posted.
It's the nice thing with this forum: to pinpoint places and origins...

[rickystl]

Hi Snowman. Welcome to the Forum.

That's a nice looking Arab matchlock. (And I use the term Arab in a very generalized sense). As others mention, the decoration does remind one of South Indian influence. And that could be it's origin (?) But no telling where it ended up. LOL
I don't yet have one of these in my collection yet. But there is usually a variety that come up for auction throughout the year. Which gives you an idea of how long they were in use.
I've never really understood the purpose of the half-moon shaped wood butt caps on these guns. Even the latter, captured British pattern 1853 Enfield rifles were often altered in this manner. Curious.

A nice looking example.

Rick

[mahratt]

Rick, this is a very interesting question. I'm also interested at butt caps on these guns. Maybe someone knows?

[colin henshaw]

I've never really understood the purpose of the half-moon shaped wood butt caps on these guns.

I remember reading somewhere (maybe one of Freya Stark's books), that the large rounded wooden "pad" was to alleviate the very strong "kick" these guns had when fired. The recoil could be so hard as to throw the shooter to the ground, seemingly...

[kahnjar1]

I agree with Colin as to the probable purpose of the "butt caps". I have always understood that they were there to soften the kick of the gun against the shoulder......HOWEVER the feature is not present on Indian Toradors, which have a much smaller (and probably sharper) butt, so maybe it is a matter of Arabian taste, rather than practicality.
Stu

[Kubur]

Hi guys
i looked in my books and Elgood says Corg, Malabar...
So unless there is a matchlock from Koweit and I'm ready to accept this proposal (we need more Koweiti examples)
I think that the gun posted is from Malabar...
But the nice barrel is Persian if not Central Asian...

[mahratt]

By the way, similar butt can be seen in some Afghan rifles:

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by mahratt

By the way, similar butt can be seen in some Afghan rifles:

The photo here shows the thick leather pads added to the butt sections. This, more than likely was to help reduce more severe recoil. Seems rather obvious.

It's the wood half-circle Arab alteration that is still a mystery to me. I just view it as a styling technique from tradition. Can't come up with a different reason.

Rick

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi guys
i looked in my books and Elgood says Corg, Malabar...
So unless there is a matchlock from Koweit and I'm ready to accept this proposal (we need more Koweiti examples)
I think that the gun posted is from Malabar...
But the nice barrel is Persian if not Central Asian...

Kuwait is just like all the Arab countries who strictly brought weapons from abroad. You’ll find examples but without provenance it could very well be recently brought from Saudi or Oman. They all look nearly identical when it comes to the local additions. Many also retain decoration of their previous Indian or Persian owners. Some can be Ottoman guns too.

My reference to the example I own was not to conclude that the item posted is Kuwaiti or of any place in general but that it is fitting the broader style of Arab used guns.

With regards to the butt stock, I do not know why is it used but you can even find in modern guns such as the AK47.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Kuwait is just like all the Arab countries who strictly brought weapons from abroad. You’ll find examples but without provenance it could very well be recently brought from Saudi or Oman. They all look nearly identical when it comes to the local additions. Many also retain decoration of their previous Indian or Persian owners. Some can be Ottoman guns too.

My reference to the example I own was not to conclude that the item posted is Kuwaiti or of any place in general but that it is fitting the broader style of Arab used guns.

With regards to the butt stock, I do not know why is it used but you can even find in modern guns such as the AK47.

Thanks for the clarification Lofty. Exactly what I was trying to convey in #8 above.
Stu