Powder flask from Afghanistan

mahratt · 1st September 2018, 05:40 PM

Hi Rick and Oliver. Thank you! I also do not doubt the Afghan origin of these powder flasks.

I have one, but unfortunately sadly missing a few parts, similarly a powder flask, which was shown stenoyab.

Rick, I also tried to buy one off a seller on ebay about a year ago. I think that this one was the same powder flask

rickystl · 2nd September 2018, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Hi Rick and Oliver. Thank you! I also do not doubt the Afghan origin of these powder flasks.

I have one, but unfortunately sadly missing a few parts, similarly a powder flask, which was shown stenoyab.

Rick, I also tried to buy one off a seller on ebay about a year ago. I think that this one was the same powder flask

Hi Mahratt

Interesting point Oliver makes ref the cut-off spring being made of horn or wood. That was my guess also, but I've never held one to examine.

The flask you posted could indeed be the same one I saw offered on the Internet. It does look similar. But my memory is not what it used to be. LOL

But I will keep my eyes open for one if it comes up for sale. Would like to see how it functions, which is not comepletely obvious. It's an interesting design.

Rick

Kubur · 22nd March 2019, 12:09 PM

Hi Guys

I got something of interest.
The lapis indicates Afghanistan but the silver work represents an Indian deity maybe from Nepal... What do you think? And please don't tell me that it was added later, the decoration was cut and done for the powder flask... so it's very intriguing...

Kubur

Jim McDougall · 22nd March 2019, 06:07 PM

Interesting topic, and especially as I enjoy learning more on these items I am not familiar with. What is interesting is the classification conundrum which always of course arises as these items are discussed.

As well known, geographic borders are diaphanous, and tribal regions often fluctuate, so hard and fast geographic denominators are typically somewhat futile in ethnographic arms. As has been noted, the character of decoration is more reliable as these are often keenly favored or traditionally recognized by tribal groups.

The term Afghan was often strained in the 19th c. as due to British occupation and efforts to control administratively, the emphasis was on districts etc. and the Northwest Frontier was simply a northern region of India. In many cases the more effective classification would have been Pashtun (tribally) or Indo-Afghan (geographically).

The example posted by Kubur is interesting as it has a silvered strip of embossed figures suggesting Indian character as noted, and seems to have been cut for the flask from some larger item. It would be hard to say when this was added, but like most weapons in ethnographica , these were certainly refurbished and kept serviceable through long working lives.

ariel · 22nd March 2019, 09:51 PM

Jim is 100% correct: at that time and even later on the borders were leaking like a sieve. In reality, there were no hermetic borders between the NW Frontier of British India and Afghanistan as well as between Afghanistan and the Central Asian Emirates/Khanates.

Thus, IMHO, we cannot define weapons from that part of the world according to strict geography. We can only talk about particular ethnicities and peculiarities of their weapons.

Even now, a good part of ethnic Afghani Pashtuns live in the Pakistani Pahtunhwa, there are more Tajiks living in Afghanistan than in Tajikistan proper and the geographically “Uzbekistani” cities Bukhara and Khokhand have always had a majority of Tajik population.

Tatyana Dianova · 28th March 2019, 10:08 PM

These figures look pretty familiar to me

Take a look here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=19
It looks like they both traveled from Afghanistan to North India and were "enhanced" there by their later owner, most probably with amuletic purpose.

Kubur · 29th March 2019, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

These figures look pretty familiar to me

Take a look here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=19
It looks like they both traveled from Afghanistan to North India and were "enhanced" there by their later owner, most probably with amuletic purpose.

Thank you Tatyana
It's exactly the answser to my question!

22nd March 2019, 12:09 PM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Guys I got something of interest. The lapis indicates Afghanistan but the silver work represents an Indian deity maybe from Nepal... What do you think? And please don't tell me that it was added later, the decoration was cut and done for the powder flask... so it's very intriguing... Kubur Attached Images

1st September 2018, 05:40 PM	#1
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Hi Rick and Oliver. Thank you! I also do not doubt the Afghan origin of these powder flasks. I have one, but unfortunately sadly missing a few parts, similarly a powder flask, which was shown stenoyab. Rick, I also tried to buy one off a seller on ebay about a year ago. I think that this one was the same powder flask

22nd March 2019, 06:07 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Interesting topic, and especially as I enjoy learning more on these items I am not familiar with. What is interesting is the classification conundrum which always of course arises as these items are discussed. As well known, geographic borders are diaphanous, and tribal regions often fluctuate, so hard and fast geographic denominators are typically somewhat futile in ethnographic arms. As has been noted, the character of decoration is more reliable as these are often keenly favored or traditionally recognized by tribal groups. The term Afghan was often strained in the 19th c. as due to British occupation and efforts to control administratively, the emphasis was on districts etc. and the Northwest Frontier was simply a northern region of India. In many cases the more effective classification would have been Pashtun (tribally) or Indo-Afghan (geographically). The example posted by Kubur is interesting as it has a silvered strip of embossed figures suggesting Indian character as noted, and seems to have been cut for the flask from some larger item. It would be hard to say when this was added, but like most weapons in ethnographica , these were certainly refurbished and kept serviceable through long working lives.

22nd March 2019, 09:51 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jim is 100% correct: at that time and even later on the borders were leaking like a sieve. In reality, there were no hermetic borders between the NW Frontier of British India and Afghanistan as well as between Afghanistan and the Central Asian Emirates/Khanates. Thus, IMHO, we cannot define weapons from that part of the world according to strict geography. We can only talk about particular ethnicities and peculiarities of their weapons. Even now, a good part of ethnic Afghani Pashtuns live in the Pakistani Pahtunhwa, there are more Tajiks living in Afghanistan than in Tajikistan proper and the geographically “Uzbekistani” cities Bukhara and Khokhand have always had a majority of Tajik population.

28th March 2019, 10:08 PM	#6
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 734	These figures look pretty familiar to me Take a look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=19 It looks like they both traveled from Afghanistan to North India and were "enhanced" there by their later owner, most probably with amuletic purpose.