Matchlock gun of Afghanistan?

fernando · 28th August 2018, 11:46 AM

Going back to the rattan problematic and within my deep limitations in the subject, i don't see that its use in barrel binding could exclusively determine the area where the gun was mounted. Rattan is used all over; such stuff would have and still forms a resource of trade. Naturally its potential use will be more abundant close from its origin but its spread is undeniable. Its bulk purpose being wicker work, Afghanis also have their share. Its local popular use extends to baskets used to carry opium for street sale and its necessary scales.

I see a Toradar labeled as from North India (Hindi written label and all) with the barrel attached to the stock with both wire and rattan capucines. So we have a 'mixed' approach here.

On the other hand, we have a Jezail in the Imperial war museum GB, with the following description:

"Matchlock jezail musket & ramrod. Facetted barrel, slightly belled at muzzle, and strengthened breech; integral sights, two rattan barrel bindings, lock with side mounted match holder, stock with applied ivory and brass decoration."

Pity no pictures available.

.

ariel · 28th August 2018, 07:29 PM

Fernando,
Thanks for your comments.

Now things become bit more clear and we can provide a more informed answer to Corrado26 re. his friend's Indian gun.

On the one hand we see a gun often encountered in South India with rattan bindings that are also abundant there..

On the other hand such stock pattern might have been potentially seen in Afghanistan ( but the evidence is extremely weak) and rattan bindings were seen on a single specimen ( jezail).

On the preponderance of evidence I would vote for the first possibility.

Thanks to all of you for a lesson.

mahratt · 28th August 2018, 08:16 PM

Many thanks to Ariel for the fact that he once again repeated everything that had already been said before. Always need someone who will sum up.

ariel · 28th August 2018, 08:33 PM

Glad to be of service and help you to comprehend the topic.

mahratt · 28th August 2018, 08:56 PM

Thanks again! To be frank, I understood the topic a little earlier. This can be seen from the third message in this thread. But I hope helped you to learn new things.

ariel · 29th August 2018, 04:14 AM

I think you missed the point in that message : preponderance of evidence is in favor of South Indian origin, but not ,- as you suggested,- Afghani and most certainly not Sindhi. Moser's example #491 is from Sindh although he called it Afghani.

Where Corrado's gun " could have been used" is irrelevant: our family drives Toyotas, and Suzuki. All were bought in the US, but they are not American cars: they are Japanese. Elephant in a Moscow Zoo is still Indian. Weapons traveled along and across the entire Indian subcontinent without hindrance. Hope it makes the point clear, does it?

28th August 2018, 11:46 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Going back to the rattan problematic and within my deep limitations in the subject, i don't see that its use in barrel binding could exclusively determine the area where the gun was mounted. Rattan is used all over; such stuff would have and still forms a resource of trade. Naturally its potential use will be more abundant close from its origin but its spread is undeniable. Its bulk purpose being wicker work, Afghanis also have their share. Its local popular use extends to baskets used to carry opium for street sale and its necessary scales. I see a Toradar labeled as from North India (Hindi written label and all) with the barrel attached to the stock with both wire and rattan capucines. So we have a 'mixed' approach here. On the other hand, we have a Jezail in the Imperial war museum GB, with the following description: "Matchlock jezail musket & ramrod. Facetted barrel, slightly belled at muzzle, and strengthened breech; integral sights, two rattan barrel bindings, lock with side mounted match holder, stock with applied ivory and brass decoration." Pity no pictures available. . Attached Images

29th August 2018, 04:14 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think you missed the point in that message : preponderance of evidence is in favor of South Indian origin, but not ,- as you suggested,- Afghani and most certainly not Sindhi. Moser's example #491 is from Sindh although he called it Afghani. Where Corrado's gun " could have been used" is irrelevant: our family drives Toyotas, and Suzuki. All were bought in the US, but they are not American cars: they are Japanese. Elephant in a Moscow Zoo is still Indian. Weapons traveled along and across the entire Indian subcontinent without hindrance. Hope it makes the point clear, does it? Last edited by ariel; 29th August 2018 at 04:56 AM.

28th August 2018, 07:29 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Fernando, Thanks for your comments. Now things become bit more clear and we can provide a more informed answer to Corrado26 re. his friend's Indian gun. On the one hand we see a gun often encountered in South India with rattan bindings that are also abundant there.. On the other hand such stock pattern might have been potentially seen in Afghanistan ( but the evidence is extremely weak) and rattan bindings were seen on a single specimen ( jezail). On the preponderance of evidence I would vote for the first possibility. Thanks to all of you for a lesson.

28th August 2018, 08:16 PM	#3
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Many thanks to Ariel for the fact that he once again repeated everything that had already been said before. Always need someone who will sum up.

28th August 2018, 08:33 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Glad to be of service and help you to comprehend the topic.

28th August 2018, 08:56 PM	#5
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Thanks again! To be frank, I understood the topic a little earlier. This can be seen from the third message in this thread. But I hope helped you to learn new things.