Keris Videos (Malay Peninsula)

A. G. Maisey · 14th August 2018, 09:39 AM

Thank you for posting this David.

I have watched it all, there is nothing offensive in it if we accept the generally accepted idea of what could be offensive, but there are some rather irritating comments, and one comment in particular is likely to cause a degree of offense to some Javanese keris enthusiasts.

I prefer to reserve further comment on the contents of this lecture.

David · 14th August 2018, 02:56 PM

As i stated Alan, i only watched a little bit into each of these to determine the direction of the lectures so i did not see anything offensive. I'll watch them completely through today and see if i need to delete anything.
But coming from the Peninsula perspective i would not be surprised if there is information in here that runs against the grain of common Javanese keris understanding.

David · 14th August 2018, 03:43 PM

OK Alan, i made my way all the way through. I can certainly see how aspects of this might come across as annoying to Javanese keris enthusiasts since this entire lecture seems to disregard the Javanese origins of the keris in general and speaks of it purely from a Malay perspective. We have often had conversations about belief as it applies to the keris and i think that without a doubt their are many keris enthusiasts who would accept this lecture word for word. For me, and no doubt yourself, there is much to debate in this lecture, but it seems important to me that we present all cultural perspectives of the keris and this is most certainly one of them.

Jean · 14th August 2018, 09:17 PM

I watched the entire videos and agree that there are some aspects which are questionable like the origin of the kris, blade poisoning, etc. but I enjoyed the information about the various types of Malay krisses and hits especially, which cannot be found easily in any book written in English language except Gardner (but incomplete). I also noticed that the lecturer mentions the warangan treatment of the blades with arsenic, contrary to some statements made earlier in the Forum.
Regards

Anthony G. · 15th August 2018, 02:08 AM

If anyone asks me, my stand and perception is that I always felt that keris is originated from Indonesia and spread to other regions in SEAsia etc.

David · 15th August 2018, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

If anyone asks me, my stand and perception is that I always felt that keris is originated from Indonesia and spread to other regions in SEAsia etc.

Anthony, i believe it is generally accepted, even to many Malay keris collectors, that the origin of the keris is not just Indonesia, but specifically Jawa. This gentleman apparently holds a minority opinion.

Green · 15th August 2018, 06:10 AM

I have not watched the the vids except for the first few minutes of the first one where he mentioned about the keris spreading from malaysia to the rest of the 'nusantara' and I stopped there, so I can not make much comments. One shouldn't take the speaker's words as gospel of course, and it is quite possible that he made inadvertant mistake in term of properly articulating what he really meant?

This is because just about everybody in Malaysia ( and the speaker himself I believe ) agree that Keris originated from Indonesia.

the speaker is a farly well known keris enthusiast and have written 2 small books on keris which are rather cursory and general in my opinion. One of them is "Keris Melayu Semenanjung: Rupa bentuk keris mengikut negeri . (trans: Malay peninsula keris: forms according to states)

As to warangan, my belief is that it is Indonesian (and not even the whole regions) practice primarily. Even the word "warangan" is a borrowed word and does not appear in Malay.

David · 15th August 2018, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

I also noticed that the lecturer mentions the warangan treatment of the blades with arsenic, contrary to some statements made earlier in the Forum.

I noted that as well Jean and thought about our discussion not too long ago about whether or not warangan was a known practice in Malay keris culture.

14th August 2018, 03:43 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	OK Alan, i made my way all the way through. I can certainly see how aspects of this might come across as annoying to Javanese keris enthusiasts since this entire lecture seems to disregard the Javanese origins of the keris in general and speaks of it purely from a Malay perspective. We have often had conversations about belief as it applies to the keris and i think that without a doubt their are many keris enthusiasts who would accept this lecture word for word. For me, and no doubt yourself, there is much to debate in this lecture, but it seems important to me that we present all cultural perspectives of the keris and this is most certainly one of them. Last edited by David; 14th August 2018 at 04:59 PM.

14th August 2018, 09:39 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Thank you for posting this David. I have watched it all, there is nothing offensive in it if we accept the generally accepted idea of what could be offensive, but there are some rather irritating comments, and one comment in particular is likely to cause a degree of offense to some Javanese keris enthusiasts. I prefer to reserve further comment on the contents of this lecture.

14th August 2018, 02:56 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	As i stated Alan, i only watched a little bit into each of these to determine the direction of the lectures so i did not see anything offensive. I'll watch them completely through today and see if i need to delete anything. But coming from the Peninsula perspective i would not be surprised if there is information in here that runs against the grain of common Javanese keris understanding.

14th August 2018, 09:17 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I watched the entire videos and agree that there are some aspects which are questionable like the origin of the kris, blade poisoning, etc. but I enjoyed the information about the various types of Malay krisses and hits especially, which cannot be found easily in any book written in English language except Gardner (but incomplete). I also noticed that the lecturer mentions the warangan treatment of the blades with arsenic, contrary to some statements made earlier in the Forum. Regards

15th August 2018, 02:08 AM	#5
Anthony G. Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 470	If anyone asks me, my stand and perception is that I always felt that keris is originated from Indonesia and spread to other regions in SEAsia etc.

15th August 2018, 06:10 AM	#7
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	I have not watched the the vids except for the first few minutes of the first one where he mentioned about the keris spreading from malaysia to the rest of the 'nusantara' and I stopped there, so I can not make much comments. One shouldn't take the speaker's words as gospel of course, and it is quite possible that he made inadvertant mistake in term of properly articulating what he really meant? This is because just about everybody in Malaysia ( and the speaker himself I believe ) agree that Keris originated from Indonesia. the speaker is a farly well known keris enthusiast and have written 2 small books on keris which are rather cursory and general in my opinion. One of them is "Keris Melayu Semenanjung: Rupa bentuk keris mengikut negeri . (trans: Malay peninsula keris: forms according to states) As to warangan, my belief is that it is Indonesian (and not even the whole regions) practice primarily. Even the word "warangan" is a borrowed word and does not appear in Malay.