Lobster Tail Helmet

Helleri · 7th August 2018, 01:31 AM

Did anyone notice the shoddily torn section of visor that the nose guard is shoved through?

kronckew · 7th August 2018, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helleri

Did anyone notice the shoddily torn section of visor that the nose guard is shoved through?

Impact damage? The whole helmet is a bit fragile looking now.

Helleri · 7th August 2018, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Impact damage? The whole helmet is a bit fragile looking now.

Yeah...Bar is skewed too. Downward blow at an angle that caught the bar? It's got that through nick in the side as well. There is a longer shallower mark that looks like it just managed to split metal right next to that pierce. And a ding on the back that shows as especially bright discoloration on the underside picture (in the dome itself lower lobe). Seams don't look as tight as they probably should be (like they got loosened). Definitely looks like this thing went through at least one good fight. And that there wasn't even an obvious attempt at repair. Maybe that's all it was meant to do. Keep one person alive through one or two encounters. It served it's purpose and was retired? Maybe someone figured they'd fix it someday but the immediate need to never arose? Seems like there is a story there which we can only speculate about. Even so, the empirical evidence does say quite a lot.

kronckew · 7th August 2018, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helleri

... Definitely looks like this thing went through at least one good fight. And that there wasn't even an obvious attempt at repair. Maybe that's all it was meant to do. Keep one person alive through one or two encounters. It served it's purpose and was retired? ...

Bit like our modern kevlar body armour & it's ceramic insert plates. Made to keep you alive once, then replaced when the kevlar is damaged and the ceramic plate is cracked.

Helleri · 8th August 2018, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Bit like our modern kevlar body armour & it's ceramic insert plates. Made to keep you alive once, then replaced when the kevlar is damaged and the ceramic plate is cracked.

The nice thing about sectional armor (as apposed to mono-pieces) is that you can likely have replaced just a brim, lobe, a few rivets or a band relatively quickly (and I'd imagine inexpensively). I wouldn't even doubt it if an armor smith who may very well crank out 10 just like this during a relatively busy couple of days might have ready made components for doing just that.

But looking closer at it. This thing has damage to nearly every section. Some of that damage is within what might be the tolerance of still usable. But so much would have to be replaced on this helmet to bring it back up to like new condition that the original owner may have just opted to get a new helmet. There has to be a point of diminishing returns on repair jobs after all.

Cathey · 9th August 2018, 02:20 AM

Hi guys
I think the helmet was originally black japanned which having worn does make the helmet appear to be in worse condition than it actually is, however it has certainly seen its share of work.

I would suggest that this we call munitions quality, definitely the less expensive version or trooper cavalry helmet.

I have three others but the difference in quality is very obvious, all having fully articulated lanes and even the three bar in my collection is articulated which often denotes officer quality.

I have actually now purchased this helmet from my friend as I quiet like the strong contrast it represents to the others I have. Also the ear pieces are different as well. I have attached the pictures Vitrix sent as a comparison.
The first one was described as A rare antique mid 17th century Cromwellian Cavalry troopers Lobster tail helmet Zischagge. Details: The scull is made of two pieces with overlapping riveted joints. The peak is with folded edges, incorporating a nasal bar, adjustable by means of a large thumb screw to the front. The cheek pieces are with ventilation holes and the neck guard is stamped from a single piece of metal to simulate an articulated version. The edges, retaining rivets, were originally used to secure the lining. A black lacquered finish overall, in very good condition for its age. Provenance: The previous owner acquired the helmet many years ago from Andrew Bottomley. Catalogue No.7 Page 123 item number 744

The second example is described as Two-piece riveted skull with high crown; one piece neck guard with 4 simulated lames; perforated ear guards. Fixed visor is stamped with a cross and orb mark; sliding nasal bar with stamped "N" and heart-shaped thumb screw to hold it in position. Heavier than most of the German or English zischagge helms. Very good condition with sound leather. This one appears to have had the black japaning removed.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

Cathey · 9th August 2018, 02:22 AM

Here are the pictures of the second example Vitrix supplied, cheers Cathey and Rex

kronckew · 9th August 2018, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

...The cheek pieces are with ventilation holes ...

The holes, I suspect, were not for ventilation but were for allowing for better hearing of orders during noisy encounters.

9th August 2018, 02:20 AM	#6
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Non Articulated Lobster Tail Helmet Hi guys I think the helmet was originally black japanned which having worn does make the helmet appear to be in worse condition than it actually is, however it has certainly seen its share of work. I would suggest that this we call munitions quality, definitely the less expensive version or trooper cavalry helmet. I have three others but the difference in quality is very obvious, all having fully articulated lanes and even the three bar in my collection is articulated which often denotes officer quality. I have actually now purchased this helmet from my friend as I quiet like the strong contrast it represents to the others I have. Also the ear pieces are different as well. I have attached the pictures Vitrix sent as a comparison. The first one was described as A rare antique mid 17th century Cromwellian Cavalry troopers Lobster tail helmet Zischagge. Details: The scull is made of two pieces with overlapping riveted joints. The peak is with folded edges, incorporating a nasal bar, adjustable by means of a large thumb screw to the front. The cheek pieces are with ventilation holes and the neck guard is stamped from a single piece of metal to simulate an articulated version. The edges, retaining rivets, were originally used to secure the lining. A black lacquered finish overall, in very good condition for its age. Provenance: The previous owner acquired the helmet many years ago from Andrew Bottomley. Catalogue No.7 Page 123 item number 744 The second example is described as Two-piece riveted skull with high crown; one piece neck guard with 4 simulated lames; perforated ear guards. Fixed visor is stamped with a cross and orb mark; sliding nasal bar with stamped "N" and heart-shaped thumb screw to hold it in position. Heavier than most of the German or English zischagge helms. Very good condition with sound leather. This one appears to have had the black japaning removed. Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

9th August 2018, 02:22 AM	#7
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	2nd example Here are the pictures of the second example Vitrix supplied, cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

7th August 2018, 01:31 AM	#1
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	Did anyone notice the shoddily torn section of visor that the nose guard is shoved through?