Kaskara in Silver Dress: an essay for comment and discussion by Ed Hunley

Edster · 22nd July 2018, 02:36 PM

Colin,

I'm not really sure the "comets" are comets. Never looked at the overall cover in detail when I photographed them 35 years ago. They just look like they might be such in the photos. Could be foliage. Still an interesting symbolic rich design apparently limited to important swords.

Best,
Ed

colin henshaw · 22nd July 2018, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

Colin,

I'm not really sure the "comets" are comets. Never looked at the overall cover in detail when I photographed them 35 years ago. They just look like they might be such in the photos. Could be foliage. Still an interesting symbolic rich design apparently limited to important swords.

Best,
Ed

I meant on the coin they look like foliage, but on the sword, could well be comets ?

Regards.

Edster · 22nd July 2018, 05:49 PM

Yes, I agree. Coin foliage. Sword probably comets.
Regards,

Edster · 24th July 2018, 01:55 PM

Oliver,

The 1762 Nasir sword was restored in the British Museum and returned to the Sudanese National Museum in Khartoum. See the "Ancient Treasures" reference in post #14. I'm not aware of the swords history prior to the restoration.

Regards,
Ed

TVV · 25th July 2018, 05:58 AM

On the subject of silver hilted kaskara in published works, it is true that there is a scarcity of images. In Tirri's "Islamic and Native Weapons of Colonial Africa" in fig. 1-13 there are a couple of kaskara swords with what looks like some metal on the hilt, but nothing worth including here. In Spring there is one silver hilted kaskara in a black and white photo. North of course has the famous Ali Dinar sword from the V&A Museum.

However, there is one publication that contains a couple of very interesting silver hilted kaskaras - "Islamic and Oriental Arms & Armor, A Lifetime Passion" by Robert Hales on p.360. This book also has an image of the Sotheby's sword.

Regards,
Teodor

Edster · 25th July 2018, 01:13 PM

Teodor,

Great catch. Thanks. I've found three other I'll post as soon as I can create good detailed images, hopefully today:
Victoria & Albert Museum M.47-1953 and Royal Armories Leeds XXVIS.165 & 166. #166 has a double pommel almost exactly like yours except for the very top and all three have star & comet covers as does yours. The more we dig the more family features we find.

Regards,
Ed

Edster · 25th July 2018, 04:33 PM

Here are three more Star & Comet covers. All in the same motif. They are not identical suggesting they were produced by different artisans.

1. Victoria and Albert Museum M.47-1953
2. Royal Armouries Collections, Leeds XXVIS.166. Note the double pommel. Its similar to the one posted above by Teodor.
3. Royal Armouries Collections, Leeds XXVIS.165. Wire wrapped at bottom just like #166.

Iain · 30th July 2018, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

On the subject of silver hilted kaskara in published works, it is true that there is a scarcity of images. In Tirri's "Islamic and Native Weapons of Colonial Africa" in fig. 1-13 there are a couple of kaskara swords with what looks like some metal on the hilt, but nothing worth including here. In Spring there is one silver hilted kaskara in a black and white photo. North of course has the famous Ali Dinar sword from the V&A Museum.

However, there is one publication that contains a couple of very interesting silver hilted kaskaras - "Islamic and Oriental Arms & Armor, A Lifetime Passion" by Robert Hales on p.360. This book also has an image of the Sotheby's sword.

Regards,
Teodor

I'm fascinated by the sword on the right in this image. Its almost takouba like in guard construction, including the scabbard fittings. Anyone know where it ended up or have more images?

stephen wood · 14th April 2019, 01:29 AM

A fascinating piece, thank you so much.

I used Pallme's "Travels..." extensively some years ago in one of my talks about the Kaskara to the Arms and Armour Society at the Tower of London.

"Knell" seems to be a typo. It should read "Kull" as on this Cavalry Sabre. Curiously, I have not yet found a Kaskara with a blade by this maker.

This thread from ten tears ago is worth a look.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=83072

Edster · 17th July 2019, 07:12 PM

Hello All,

A revised and printable pdf version of the initial thread has been posted on the Ethnographic Arms & Armour Geographical Index, Africa along with similar enhanced versions of the Fullers and Cross-guards monographs. Here's the link:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/...lver_dress.pdf

The new version incorporates comments by Forum members and other materials including an enlarged Pommels section and a commentary on the "Dotted Cross" in relation to the Stars & Comets section.

Thanks to Forum members for their inputs, comments and the use of images from their collections.

Special thanks to Ian Greaves for editing and presenting my initial work suitable for Forum viewing.

Extra special thanks to Lee Jones for additional inputs and for editing and formatting the material into a printable pdf document.

Best regards,
Ed

25th July 2018, 05:58 AM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	On the subject of silver hilted kaskara in published works, it is true that there is a scarcity of images. In Tirri's "Islamic and Native Weapons of Colonial Africa" in fig. 1-13 there are a couple of kaskara swords with what looks like some metal on the hilt, but nothing worth including here. In Spring there is one silver hilted kaskara in a black and white photo. North of course has the famous Ali Dinar sword from the V&A Museum. However, there is one publication that contains a couple of very interesting silver hilted kaskaras - "Islamic and Oriental Arms & Armor, A Lifetime Passion" by Robert Hales on p.360. This book also has an image of the Sotheby's sword. Regards, Teodor Attached Images

25th July 2018, 04:33 PM	#7
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Here are three more Star & Comet covers. All in the same motif. They are not identical suggesting they were produced by different artisans. 1. Victoria and Albert Museum M.47-1953 2. Royal Armouries Collections, Leeds XXVIS.166. Note the double pommel. Its similar to the one posted above by Teodor. 3. Royal Armouries Collections, Leeds XXVIS.165. Wire wrapped at bottom just like #166. Attached Images

14th April 2019, 01:29 AM	#9
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	Peter Kull, Solingen. A fascinating piece, thank you so much. I used Pallme's "Travels..." extensively some years ago in one of my talks about the Kaskara to the Arms and Armour Society at the Tower of London. "Knell" seems to be a typo. It should read "Kull" as on this Cavalry Sabre. Curiously, I have not yet found a Kaskara with a blade by this maker. This thread from ten tears ago is worth a look. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=83072 Attached Images Last edited by stephen wood; 14th April 2019 at 01:57 AM.

22nd July 2018, 02:36 PM	#1
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Colin, I'm not really sure the "comets" are comets. Never looked at the overall cover in detail when I photographed them 35 years ago. They just look like they might be such in the photos. Could be foliage. Still an interesting symbolic rich design apparently limited to important swords. Best, Ed

22nd July 2018, 05:49 PM	#3
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Yes, I agree. Coin foliage. Sword probably comets. Regards,

24th July 2018, 01:55 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Oliver, The 1762 Nasir sword was restored in the British Museum and returned to the Sudanese National Museum in Khartoum. See the "Ancient Treasures" reference in post #14. I'm not aware of the swords history prior to the restoration. Regards, Ed

25th July 2018, 01:13 PM	#6
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Teodor, Great catch. Thanks. I've found three other I'll post as soon as I can create good detailed images, hopefully today: Victoria & Albert Museum M.47-1953 and Royal Armories Leeds XXVIS.165 & 166. #166 has a double pommel almost exactly like yours except for the very top and all three have star & comet covers as does yours. The more we dig the more family features we find. Regards, Ed

17th July 2019, 07:12 PM	#10
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Hello All, A revised and printable pdf version of the initial thread has been posted on the Ethnographic Arms & Armour Geographical Index, Africa along with similar enhanced versions of the Fullers and Cross-guards monographs. Here's the link: http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/...lver_dress.pdf The new version incorporates comments by Forum members and other materials including an enlarged Pommels section and a commentary on the "Dotted Cross" in relation to the Stars & Comets section. Thanks to Forum members for their inputs, comments and the use of images from their collections. Special thanks to Ian Greaves for editing and presenting my initial work suitable for Forum viewing. Extra special thanks to Lee Jones for additional inputs and for editing and formatting the material into a printable pdf document. Best regards, Ed