Kaskara in Silver Dress: an essay for comment and discussion by Ed Hunley

Edster · 20th July 2018, 12:35 AM

Teodor,

Thanks for your compliments. I did considerable on-line research on any symbolism exhibited. No real luck for the covers. Of course Islamic/Sudanese cultures use a lot astrological images as symbols including images on sword blades. Its fantastic to be out at night in remote Sudan and look up at the sky. No light pollution or humidity and the heavens are alive with stars and shooting stars. That vision is bound to make an impression on the individual, society and culture. But still I found nothing that articulated that. I was hoping that members would be able to add from their research and knowledge.

Double pommels are interesting and I think mostly from Ethiopia. But I didn't include them. By the "pommels" section I was getting drained. I and others would appreciate it if you would add discussion and images them to this thread.

Best,
Ed

TVV · 20th July 2018, 01:00 AM

Ed, rather than repeat the research of others, here is a link to a thread that was created by Iain for the discussion of double disc pommels:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18691

Teodor

Edster · 20th July 2018, 02:32 AM

Good addition to the thread. Thanks.

Kubur · 20th July 2018, 08:13 AM

Dear Ed,

Your essay is interesting, but I can see a serious problem:
- where are your references, books, articles?

Regards,
Kubur

Edster · 20th July 2018, 01:47 PM

Dear Kubur,

My main reference was on-site research in the Suq al Hadad in Kassala, Sudan in March 1984, associated field notes and written up in my Social Economics of Small Craft Production, the Sword and Knife Makers of Kassaka, Eastern Sudan. (Available from EAA's reference section) I also used G. Reed's 1987 “Kaskara from Northern Darfur, Sudan” in The Journal of The Arms & Armour Society and Lee Jones' “Kaskara of Sudanic Africa”. I inspected and photographed the as-Shinqiti Collection in-situ at the Univ.of Khartoum where I taught a semester in 1984-85. I also used photographs from a couple of my own kaskaras. Most of the other photo references were identified from a Google image search on “Kaskara Silver Grips”. Most of the good stuff was from our own Vikingsword threads and photos. Other photos were from various web sites I incorporated under ”fair use” and did not reference other than their URL address as a live link. I won't mention all the other references, including Sudan Notes and Records articles and the Jay Spauldin works of the Funj Kingdom I reviewed but didn't find anything relevant. I even delved into siting references into the al-Kaid comet or star with a tail; nothing to tie a passage in late Funj times.

If I missed any important or relevent reference, please let me know. Anything to expand our knowledge will be helpful.

Regards,
Ed

Ian · 20th July 2018, 04:22 PM

Kubur, you raise a good point and thanks Ed for clarifying your sources. So much of our research is necessarily conducted from outside the culture. Ed's field data from his time in the Sudan is valuable information, being reported here in a manner subject to review and critique much as a scientific paper presented at a scholarly meeting. The court of "peer review" on this site can be as rigorous as in an academic setting.

Kubur · 21st July 2018, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

Dear Kubur,

If I missed any important or relevent reference, please let me know. Anything to expand our knowledge will be helpful.

Regards,
Ed

Dear Ed,

You have plently in any catalogue such as Hales, the MET...
Just look at Ricketts, 1988, he mentions the swords of the Darfur and the ones at the Royal armouries (Richardson)...
...

Edster · 21st July 2018, 02:25 PM

Dear Kubur,

Thanks for the references. I tried the on-line MET, but the only photo they had was of the snake double pommel sword, but it wasn't as good as the one Teodor supplied. Ricketts, 1988 looks great, but I don't have access to it. I'll try to get bootleg access via libgen.io. I'd appreciate if you could scan & post the Darfur sword sections. Its difficult for casual researchers to get access to a good reference library without spending a bundle. I'm beginning to think that Darfur may be the birthplace of the Kaskara or at least the key location to its development.

Our inquiry is hampered because mostly we see in books "full face" photos of swords and particularly quillons. We need to be able to handle them and see and photograph from different angles to appreciate their 3-D qualities.

On a separate note, I recently found an 1838 reference to the cross & orb with a lion sword makers mark. Its in Travels in Kordofan by Ignatius Pallme, London 1844. Not a very good cut and paste below. Also note the preferred Death's-head mark by Peter Knell. I'm not familiar with that one.

“Two-edged swords, of Austrian manufacture, are thirty-six inches and a half in length, and one inch and three-quarters in breadth, of equal diameter throughout, and rounded off inferiorly. Seven inches and a quarter in the curve, and marked: 5 with a lion. Thescabbardsandhiltsaremadeinthecountry. They areinmostrequestinDarfour. Thesaleisattendedwithcon siderable profit, but those marked with a death's-head from the workshops of Peter Knell, in Solingen, are preferred. “ (Note: The “5” in the text above in the cross & orb symbol in the original.)

Below are great references I used, but forgot to include in the previous reply to you. They are key to the silver grips of both diamond and star & comet motifs.

“Royal Regalia: a sword of the last Sultan of Darfur, Ali Dinar” J. Anderson, A. Ali Mohaned, et al, Sudan and Nubia, The Sudan Archaeological Research Society, Bulletin No. 20, 2016

Ancient Treasures exhibition from the Sudan National Museum, 2004, The British Museum. D. Welsby & J. Anderson. It shows the 1762 Nasir Mohamed Funj sword. I didn't use the image in the essay because a better one was available elsewhere.

Regards,
Ed

21st July 2018, 02:25 PM	#8
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Dear Kubur, Thanks for the references. I tried the on-line MET, but the only photo they had was of the snake double pommel sword, but it wasn't as good as the one Teodor supplied. Ricketts, 1988 looks great, but I don't have access to it. I'll try to get bootleg access via libgen.io. I'd appreciate if you could scan & post the Darfur sword sections. Its difficult for casual researchers to get access to a good reference library without spending a bundle. I'm beginning to think that Darfur may be the birthplace of the Kaskara or at least the key location to its development. Our inquiry is hampered because mostly we see in books "full face" photos of swords and particularly quillons. We need to be able to handle them and see and photograph from different angles to appreciate their 3-D qualities. On a separate note, I recently found an 1838 reference to the cross & orb with a lion sword makers mark. Its in Travels in Kordofan by Ignatius Pallme, London 1844. Not a very good cut and paste below. Also note the preferred Death's-head mark by Peter Knell. I'm not familiar with that one. “Two-edged swords, of Austrian manufacture, are thirty-six inches and a half in length, and one inch and three-quarters in breadth, of equal diameter throughout, and rounded off inferiorly. Seven inches and a quarter in the curve, and marked: 5 with a lion. Thescabbardsandhiltsaremadeinthecountry. They areinmostrequestinDarfour. Thesaleisattendedwithcon siderable profit, but those marked with a death's-head from the workshops of Peter Knell, in Solingen, are preferred. “ (Note: The “5” in the text above in the cross & orb symbol in the original.) Below are great references I used, but forgot to include in the previous reply to you. They are key to the silver grips of both diamond and star & comet motifs. “Royal Regalia: a sword of the last Sultan of Darfur, Ali Dinar” J. Anderson, A. Ali Mohaned, et al, Sudan and Nubia, The Sudan Archaeological Research Society, Bulletin No. 20, 2016 Ancient Treasures exhibition from the Sudan National Museum, 2004, The British Museum. D. Welsby & J. Anderson. It shows the 1762 Nasir Mohamed Funj sword. I didn't use the image in the essay because a better one was available elsewhere. Regards, Ed Last edited by Edster; 21st July 2018 at 02:42 PM.

20th July 2018, 12:35 AM	#1
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Teodor, Thanks for your compliments. I did considerable on-line research on any symbolism exhibited. No real luck for the covers. Of course Islamic/Sudanese cultures use a lot astrological images as symbols including images on sword blades. Its fantastic to be out at night in remote Sudan and look up at the sky. No light pollution or humidity and the heavens are alive with stars and shooting stars. That vision is bound to make an impression on the individual, society and culture. But still I found nothing that articulated that. I was hoping that members would be able to add from their research and knowledge. Double pommels are interesting and I think mostly from Ethiopia. But I didn't include them. By the "pommels" section I was getting drained. I and others would appreciate it if you would add discussion and images them to this thread. Best, Ed

20th July 2018, 01:00 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Ed, rather than repeat the research of others, here is a link to a thread that was created by Iain for the discussion of double disc pommels: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18691 Teodor

20th July 2018, 02:32 AM	#3
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Good addition to the thread. Thanks.

20th July 2018, 08:13 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Dear Ed, Your essay is interesting, but I can see a serious problem: - where are your references, books, articles? Regards, Kubur

20th July 2018, 01:47 PM	#5
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Dear Kubur, My main reference was on-site research in the Suq al Hadad in Kassala, Sudan in March 1984, associated field notes and written up in my Social Economics of Small Craft Production, the Sword and Knife Makers of Kassaka, Eastern Sudan. (Available from EAA's reference section) I also used G. Reed's 1987 “Kaskara from Northern Darfur, Sudan” in The Journal of The Arms & Armour Society and Lee Jones' “Kaskara of Sudanic Africa”. I inspected and photographed the as-Shinqiti Collection in-situ at the Univ.of Khartoum where I taught a semester in 1984-85. I also used photographs from a couple of my own kaskaras. Most of the other photo references were identified from a Google image search on “Kaskara Silver Grips”. Most of the good stuff was from our own Vikingsword threads and photos. Other photos were from various web sites I incorporated under ”fair use” and did not reference other than their URL address as a live link. I won't mention all the other references, including Sudan Notes and Records articles and the Jay Spauldin works of the Funj Kingdom I reviewed but didn't find anything relevant. I even delved into siting references into the al-Kaid comet or star with a tail; nothing to tie a passage in late Funj times. If I missed any important or relevent reference, please let me know. Anything to expand our knowledge will be helpful. Regards, Ed

20th July 2018, 04:22 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Kubur, you raise a good point and thanks Ed for clarifying your sources. So much of our research is necessarily conducted from outside the culture. Ed's field data from his time in the Sudan is valuable information, being reported here in a manner subject to review and critique much as a scientific paper presented at a scholarly meeting. The court of "peer review" on this site can be as rigorous as in an academic setting.