The Tinguian and Ilocano Peoples--an ethnography based on the work of Cole

[A. G. Maisey]

No Ian, I would not refer to the finger stop on the Canary Island knife as a choil.

In simple terms a choil is an area between the cutting edge and the tang that is intended as the point where the sharpening of the cutting edge begins.

It is not a guard, nor a finger stop, nor a ricasso, it is not there to catch an opponent's blade in knife combat, it is not a decorative element, it is not intended to interrupt the flow of blood on the blade and redirect it away from the user's hand, it has no religious function nor association, it is not intended to be used to strip sinew, nor to strip bark.

The choil is a design element in a blade that indicates the point at which blade sharpening should commence. It can occur in various forms, and some are large enough to accommodate a finger, but the purpose of the choil is not to accommodate a finger.

The Spanish Notch is usually found in a similar position to the choil, but although it may be similar to a choil, and can also be used to indicate the point at which sharpening should begin, it is not a choil. The Spanish Notch appears to have its origins in mediaeval left hand daggers, it continued as a design element in the line of large knives that followed the left hand dagger and in these knives it eventually developed into a decorative feature.

In modern custom knives the Spanish Notch is sometimes included as a decorative element, I very much doubt if most custom makers have any understanding of its origins or original purpose.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

... The Spanish Notch is usually found in a similar position to the choil, but although it may be similar to a choil, and can also be used to indicate the point at which sharpening should begin, it is not a choil. The Spanish Notch appears to have its origins in mediaeval left hand daggers, it continued as a design element in the line of large knives that followed the left hand dagger and in these knives it eventually developed into a decorative feature.

In modern custom knives the Spanish Notch is sometimes included as a decorative element, I very much doubt if most custom makers have any understanding of its origins or original purpose.

Thanks Alan. Very helpful explanation. The Spanish colonial knives of the Canary Islands and South America that show a notch tend to be on the small side, generally less than 12 inches in overall length in my experience. Is that your experience too.

[A. G. Maisey]

Ian, I have no experience in the field of Spanish colonial knives.

For many years my single minded focus has been the Javanese keris, but I do have lengthy experience preceding that Javanese focus, in sharp pointy things in general, including about 20 years in custom knife making, mostly in blade smithing. Add to this a life long interest in the way in which edged weapons have been used in various societies, and that forms the background to my comments in respect of choils & notches.

I have owned a few Spanish, and Spanish-like knives over the years, but they have never been of much interest to me.

The only reason for my original comment was to attempt to identify the notch at the ricasso of the Tinguian knives for what I believe it to be.

I had no intention of diverting discussion of this thread into a different direction.

[Ian]

An important amendment needs to be made to the foregoing discussion. It has been brought to my attention that all the blades shown in Cole, Figure 7 (above) are made in Ilocos norte and acquired from there by the Tinguian. The weapons shown in Figures 8 and 9 are the indigenous weapons of the Tinguian who have close cultural ties with the Kalinga people. The Tinguian/Kalinga apparently make excellent head axes, as shown above, as well as spears and shields (also shown above).


Ian

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

An important amendment needs to be made to the foregoing discussion. It has been brought to my attention that all the blades shown in Cole, Figure 7 (above) are made in Ilocos norte and acquired from there by the Tinguian. The weapons shown in Figures 8 and 9 are the indigenous weapons of the Tinguian who have close cultural ties with the Kalinga people. The Tinguian/Kalinga apparently make excellent head axes, as shown above, as well as spears and shields (also shown above).

Thank you for clarification Ian! I was direct sceptical but never post it here. I would have placed them to Ilocos Norte, that is what I gleaned from you and others.

Regards,
Detlef

[Battara]

Ian, I've always wondered this. Makes more sense now.