Jejeran Pulungan

rasjid · 2nd July 2018, 02:46 AM

Thank you Alan, detailed information there.

Just a little from me, Pulung- an, maybe its just a name to generalized things. Like "sejenis pulung-pulung an" or " some sort of pulung".
Same like the hilt with long nose, in sumatra or cirebon some called: "bebek-bebek" an. (Actual meaning: duck? Or duckling?)

not sure myself.

rasjid · 2nd July 2018, 03:01 AM

David,
I have one also...
bold, wood n fossilized, heavy in weigh.

called buta bajang? I'm no expert and not involved in the naming game. Its old and made from wood material.

Rasjid

A. G. Maisey · 2nd July 2018, 04:29 AM

Rasjid, true, "an" can have other applications, but my post was already too long, too complex, and I did not want to turn it into a lesson in Indonesian grammar.

I probably used a bad word for an example of the use of the "an" suffix, but I wanted the use of the suffix to be clear, I did not want to give lessons in grammar. It was bad example because I used a verb as my root word, which does give good contrast for clarity of comprehension, but since "pulung" is a noun I guess it can also cause confusion, especially to someone like you, who is a native speaker of B.I. Please accept my apologies.

So let me try again:-
verb + an = noun that is result of action ( I probably used eat & food as my example because I was eating a chocolate biscuit as I wrote)

noun + an = noun that is more focussed than the original noun

adjective + an = noun that has the character of the adjective

So, your example of "bebek-bebekan" = ducks + an = duck-like, similarly "keris-kerisan" = kerises + an = keris-like, but here in your examples we have doubled the noun, so we are adding "an" to a plural noun, not a singular noun, thus it acquires a slightly different meaning that can be understood as generic :- duck like things, keris-like things.

In respect of the pulungan hilt, it is a hilt that is focussed on the idea of wahyu, good fortune, high ranking official, it is the adding of "an" to a noun, which creates a focus on the product of that flash of light:- "pulung" is the flash that brings rank and good fortune, the result of that flash is the person to whom the rank and good fortune has been brought, that is, this fortunate person is the "pulungan".

So, if some of these hilts have crowns, and others do not, who is the fortunate one, the one who received the wahyu?

But in another sense he is also something that has been rolled into a pellet.

Anyone feel like rolling a king?

rasjid · 2nd July 2018, 06:04 AM

Alan,

Agreed, we do not explain about Bahasa Indonesia. Just touching a little bit, to explain.
Thank you, I'm learning as well from your post.

So my guess, we we rank them according to price wise and assuming all quality carving similar:
1. Crown head and Snake in shoulder would be rank 1 & 2, the crown one maybe #1, seldom seen around. Snake one, once in a while seen.
2. Pendant
3. Plain on chest or sometimes plain chest and the hands carved

So many other variants.
Welcome to the world of hilts, not to mention about the keris yet

Rasjid

Jean · 2nd July 2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasjid

Same like the hilt with long nose, in sumatra or cirebon some called: "bebek-bebek" an. (Actual meaning: duck? Or duckling?)

not sure myself.

According to the book "Keris dan senjata pusaka bahari" (one of the rare books dealing with krisses from Cirebon), the name garan bebekan (duck hilt) refers to the Jawa demam style hilts from Cirebon (see attached specimen).
Regards

rasjid · 2nd July 2018, 03:49 PM

Thank you Jean. Is this yours? Nice one.
A new thread would be good for bebekan.

Bjorn · 2nd July 2018, 06:55 PM

Thank you, Alan, for that informative post. I always like to learn more about languages, as words and cultures are inextricably linked and influence each other in all sorts of ways.

2nd July 2018, 03:01 AM	#2
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	David, I have one also... bold, wood n fossilized, heavy in weigh. called buta bajang? I'm no expert and not involved in the naming game. Its old and made from wood material. Rasjid Attached Images

2nd July 2018, 02:46 AM	#1
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Pulungan word... Thank you Alan, detailed information there. Just a little from me, Pulung- an, maybe its just a name to generalized things. Like "sejenis pulung-pulung an" or " some sort of pulung". Same like the hilt with long nose, in sumatra or cirebon some called: "bebek-bebek" an. (Actual meaning: duck? Or duckling?) not sure myself.

2nd July 2018, 04:29 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Rasjid, true, "an" can have other applications, but my post was already too long, too complex, and I did not want to turn it into a lesson in Indonesian grammar. I probably used a bad word for an example of the use of the "an" suffix, but I wanted the use of the suffix to be clear, I did not want to give lessons in grammar. It was bad example because I used a verb as my root word, which does give good contrast for clarity of comprehension, but since "pulung" is a noun I guess it can also cause confusion, especially to someone like you, who is a native speaker of B.I. Please accept my apologies. So let me try again:- verb + an = noun that is result of action ( I probably used eat & food as my example because I was eating a chocolate biscuit as I wrote) noun + an = noun that is more focussed than the original noun adjective + an = noun that has the character of the adjective So, your example of "bebek-bebekan" = ducks + an = duck-like, similarly "keris-kerisan" = kerises + an = keris-like, but here in your examples we have doubled the noun, so we are adding "an" to a plural noun, not a singular noun, thus it acquires a slightly different meaning that can be understood as generic :- duck like things, keris-like things. In respect of the pulungan hilt, it is a hilt that is focussed on the idea of wahyu, good fortune, high ranking official, it is the adding of "an" to a noun, which creates a focus on the product of that flash of light:- "pulung" is the flash that brings rank and good fortune, the result of that flash is the person to whom the rank and good fortune has been brought, that is, this fortunate person is the "pulungan". So, if some of these hilts have crowns, and others do not, who is the fortunate one, the one who received the wahyu? But in another sense he is also something that has been rolled into a pellet. Anyone feel like rolling a king?

2nd July 2018, 06:04 AM	#4
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Alan, Agreed, we do not explain about Bahasa Indonesia. Just touching a little bit, to explain. Thank you, I'm learning as well from your post. So my guess, we we rank them according to price wise and assuming all quality carving similar: 1. Crown head and Snake in shoulder would be rank 1 & 2, the crown one maybe #1, seldom seen around. Snake one, once in a while seen. 2. Pendant 3. Plain on chest or sometimes plain chest and the hands carved So many other variants. Welcome to the world of hilts, not to mention about the keris yet Rasjid

2nd July 2018, 03:49 PM	#6
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Thank you Jean. Is this yours? Nice one. A new thread would be good for bebekan.

2nd July 2018, 06:55 PM	#7
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	Thank you, Alan, for that informative post. I always like to learn more about languages, as words and cultures are inextricably linked and influence each other in all sorts of ways.