Help with ID

Kmaddock · 19th June 2018, 11:38 PM

VOC is the symbol for the Dutch East Indies company so that is where the blade is from.
This might give you a starting point on the hilt

Maybe the European side of the forum would be the place to post this sword?

Regards

Ken

Battara · 20th June 2018, 12:57 AM

Transferring to the European section.

Rick · 20th June 2018, 01:23 AM

Another entrant for the 'Shaver Cool' style of sabre.

Was it made here (east indies); or there (Europa)?

M ELEY · 20th June 2018, 01:51 AM

Oh Noooo! Don't say those words, Rick!!! 'Shaver Cool!'

I believe the blade is legit: a Dutch East India Co. sword with proper marking and the talismanic numerals. if it were over in the Indies, its possible that the...ahem...later hilt was put on it for the tourists. The hilt does appear to have some aging to it. If it came from Malay or Shri Lanka, it would undoubtedly have some sort of dragon/naga type hilt as this.

Can we get a shot of the capstan/screw on the top pommel and in the dragon's mouth? Perhaps not tourist, but more of a refit??? The side mounted screw from the knuckle bow is remeniscent of the Dutch naval and marinesabal swords ca. 1800.

The numbers might also indicate an important date in the Dutch history. Haven't had time to research it. It could also be talismanic.

Mark

Hammondtx · 20th June 2018, 03:56 AM

Thanks for moving to the correct section. I had no idea where to start.

What is the reference to shaver cool? I'm a novice on this subject, is that code for a replica?

Here are more pictures, it's some sort of bambo or wood made into a rivet inside the dragons mouth.

M ELEY · 20th June 2018, 12:25 PM

Sorry for not explaining the 'Shaver Cool' reference! It is in the archive. Quite a few years back, we had a post with a sword with VOC markings, brass hilt, and the word 'Shaver Cool' on the blade, believed to be a Dutch ship. The post went on and on without any definite conclusion. I've actually seen a few other swords over the years with the Shaver Cool logo and personally think it might have been a legit ship and history, but the swords all seemed to date to the 30's-40's and tourist. Hilts were often like a dragon, but poorly executed, the VOC markings crude and not very old, etc.

Now yours, on the other hand, is intriguing. The brass is cast and of better quality. It has a real patina, not some touristy 'Made in...' type. The bamboo pin replaces a screw which would have been there originally, common on Dutch swords of this period. The peened tang through the top of the hilt again shows age and well done. In my opinion (and it is ONLY that), this is an old East India Company sword blade with a later (perhaps mid to late 19th c.) hilt similar to a kastane. I don't think it was made for a market sale, but for honest-to-goodness reuse as a weapon. The hilt could have been refitted in a Dutch trading post such as Shri Lanka, the Thai peninsula or perhaps an Indian port. Something about the dragon and the star-like guard makes me think Thai or surrounding area. Now, let me be shot down by others-

Hammondtx, I really like this sword! I know you started out on the Ethnographic Forum and they send you here for the Dutch identification, but I think you still might later repost it there for their opinion of the hilt and where it might have been cast.

Rick · 20th June 2018, 05:21 PM

I'm curious about the eight pointed plates that are attached to the cross guard on each side. They do not seem from the pictures to very ergonomic when it comes to actually using this sabre.

Rick · 21st June 2018, 03:24 AM

[QUOTE=M ELEY] In my opinion (and it is ONLY that), this is an old East India Company sword blade with a later (perhaps mid to late 19th c.) hilt similar to a kastane. I don't think it was made for a market sale, but for honest-to-goodness reuse as a weapon. The hilt could have been refitted in a Dutch trading post such as Shri Lanka. Now, let me be shot down by others-

[QUOTE]

When I look at the hilt I think Ceylon Mark.

It looks like there was a forward quillon, now gone.

But those plates look like they'd hurt the hand if you choked up on the hilt in use.

Possibly the owner could comment on this with it in hand.

20th June 2018, 01:51 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Oh Noooo! Don't say those words, Rick!!! 'Shaver Cool!' I believe the blade is legit: a Dutch East India Co. sword with proper marking and the talismanic numerals. if it were over in the Indies, its possible that the...ahem...later hilt was put on it for the tourists. The hilt does appear to have some aging to it. If it came from Malay or Shri Lanka, it would undoubtedly have some sort of dragon/naga type hilt as this. Can we get a shot of the capstan/screw on the top pommel and in the dragon's mouth? Perhaps not tourist, but more of a refit??? The side mounted screw from the knuckle bow is remeniscent of the Dutch naval and marinesabal swords ca. 1800. The numbers might also indicate an important date in the Dutch history. Haven't had time to research it. It could also be talismanic. Mark Last edited by M ELEY; 20th June 2018 at 12:33 PM.

20th June 2018, 03:56 AM	#5
Hammondtx Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Buffalo, TX Posts: 3	Thanks for moving to the correct section. I had no idea where to start. What is the reference to shaver cool? I'm a novice on this subject, is that code for a replica? Here are more pictures, it's some sort of bambo or wood made into a rivet inside the dragons mouth. Attached Images

20th June 2018, 12:25 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Sorry for not explaining the 'Shaver Cool' reference! It is in the archive. Quite a few years back, we had a post with a sword with VOC markings, brass hilt, and the word 'Shaver Cool' on the blade, believed to be a Dutch ship. The post went on and on without any definite conclusion. I've actually seen a few other swords over the years with the Shaver Cool logo and personally think it might have been a legit ship and history, but the swords all seemed to date to the 30's-40's and tourist. Hilts were often like a dragon, but poorly executed, the VOC markings crude and not very old, etc. Now yours, on the other hand, is intriguing. The brass is cast and of better quality. It has a real patina, not some touristy 'Made in...' type. The bamboo pin replaces a screw which would have been there originally, common on Dutch swords of this period. The peened tang through the top of the hilt again shows age and well done. In my opinion (and it is ONLY that), this is an old East India Company sword blade with a later (perhaps mid to late 19th c.) hilt similar to a kastane. I don't think it was made for a market sale, but for honest-to-goodness reuse as a weapon. The hilt could have been refitted in a Dutch trading post such as Shri Lanka, the Thai peninsula or perhaps an Indian port. Something about the dragon and the star-like guard makes me think Thai or surrounding area. Now, let me be shot down by others- Hammondtx, I really like this sword! I know you started out on the Ethnographic Forum and they send you here for the Dutch identification, but I think you still might later repost it there for their opinion of the hilt and where it might have been cast. Last edited by M ELEY; 20th June 2018 at 12:37 PM.

19th June 2018, 11:38 PM	#1
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 545	VOC is the symbol for the Dutch East Indies company so that is where the blade is from. This might give you a starting point on the hilt Maybe the European side of the forum would be the place to post this sword? Regards Ken

20th June 2018, 12:57 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Transferring to the European section.

20th June 2018, 01:23 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Another entrant for the 'Shaver Cool' style of sabre. Was it made here (east indies); or there (Europa)?

20th June 2018, 05:21 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	I'm curious about the eight pointed plates that are attached to the cross guard on each side. They do not seem from the pictures to very ergonomic when it comes to actually using this sabre.

21st June 2018, 03:24 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	[QUOTE=M ELEY] In my opinion (and it is ONLY that), this is an old East India Company sword blade with a later (perhaps mid to late 19th c.) hilt similar to a kastane. I don't think it was made for a market sale, but for honest-to-goodness reuse as a weapon. The hilt could have been refitted in a Dutch trading post such as Shri Lanka. Now, let me be shot down by others- [QUOTE] When I look at the hilt I think Ceylon Mark. It looks like there was a forward quillon, now gone. But those plates look like they'd hurt the hand if you choked up on the hilt in use. Possibly the owner could comment on this with it in hand.