Club trivia! Second example! Take a guess!

RSWORD · 27th May 2018, 12:17 AM

Here is your second quiz. I think I have found an ID for this one but let’s see what you guys think. Feel free to ask clarifying questions. This example is about 29” long.

Battara · 27th May 2018, 01:06 AM

Amazonian?

Tim Simmons · 27th May 2018, 09:23 AM

I think South America too, possibly Argentina? Peruvian Amazon?

colin henshaw · 27th May 2018, 02:54 PM

Nice club. I go for South America (Brazil ?) as well; the domed top and right-angled circular protusions near the butt are indicators.

RSWORD · 28th May 2018, 03:31 PM

Thanks for the feedback so far. We have a consensus that is definitely leading us in a particular direction. Will post the reference I found on this piece as soon as I can relocate it.

fireiceviper · 28th May 2018, 09:53 PM

I dunno, Amazonian / Brazil? not sure though... has it been lacquered?

RSWORD · 30th May 2018, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireiceviper

I dunno, Amazonian / Brazil? not sure though... has it been lacquered?

No, it has not been lacquered. Has a nice glossy patina though.

RSWORD · 30th May 2018, 04:49 AM

So I have looked and looked and can’t find the reference. I do recall seeing an identical club in a museum database and they referenced a particular tribe in Ecuador. The club very much resembles Brazilian clubs but doesn’t have the typical patterned wrap like the Kayapo clubs but it does have the similar dome shaped top. The work at the bottom of the grip is similar to but different than the Brazilian examples. Also, this one is a reddish wood and most of the Brazilian examples of this form I have seen are brownish. Unsure if Ecuador is right but hopefully that museum example will turn up for me one day.

Tim Simmons · 30th May 2018, 12:25 PM

I do not think the colour of the wood is much of a factor in identifying the origin with this club. I think the form is so convincing. Traditional "tribal" weapons tend to follow a standard form but in that there are regional and personnel variations. Here are two of mine of different wood. I also add this picture from " Amazonien Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen , Museum fur Volkerkunde Dresden " Here is a similar style variation to the pommel and variation of plant fibre wrap to the common form. Your club may have had a wrap in the past, they do not take a lot of handling and would be replaced. The club from the Dresden Museum was collected from the " Ira'amranh-re " In a geographic region there local variations. It is a really nice looking club.

It would seem that the Ira'amranh-re are a sub-group of Kayapo or A Kayapo group on the Ira'amranh-re river, it is hard to get more specialist information.

I have just found on the web that there are four sub-groups of Kayapo; Gorotir, Menkragnoti, Metyktire, Xikrin. So it looks like the Ira'amranh-re may be a different group or more distantly related people.

This German web site link; https://freie-referate.de/erdkunde/457-2 does state that the Ira'amranh-re are a sub-group of the Kayapo.

Other unrelated groups also live in the Tocantins river region like the Karaja and use the same form of club.

27th May 2018, 12:17 AM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Club trivia! Second example! Take a guess! Here is your second quiz. I think I have found an ID for this one but let’s see what you guys think. Feel free to ask clarifying questions. This example is about 29” long. Attached Images

27th May 2018, 09:23 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I think South America too, possibly Argentina? Peruvian Amazon? Last edited by Tim Simmons; 27th May 2018 at 10:08 AM.

30th May 2018, 12:25 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I do not think the colour of the wood is much of a factor in identifying the origin with this club. I think the form is so convincing. Traditional "tribal" weapons tend to follow a standard form but in that there are regional and personnel variations. Here are two of mine of different wood. I also add this picture from " Amazonien Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen , Museum fur Volkerkunde Dresden " Here is a similar style variation to the pommel and variation of plant fibre wrap to the common form. Your club may have had a wrap in the past, they do not take a lot of handling and would be replaced. The club from the Dresden Museum was collected from the " Ira'amranh-re " In a geographic region there local variations. It is a really nice looking club. It would seem that the Ira'amranh-re are a sub-group of Kayapo or A Kayapo group on the Ira'amranh-re river, it is hard to get more specialist information. I have just found on the web that there are four sub-groups of Kayapo; Gorotir, Menkragnoti, Metyktire, Xikrin. So it looks like the Ira'amranh-re may be a different group or more distantly related people. This German web site link; https://freie-referate.de/erdkunde/457-2 does state that the Ira'amranh-re are a sub-group of the Kayapo. Other unrelated groups also live in the Tocantins river region like the Karaja and use the same form of club. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 30th May 2018 at 01:17 PM.

27th May 2018, 01:06 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Amazonian?

27th May 2018, 02:54 PM	#4
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Nice club. I go for South America (Brazil ?) as well; the domed top and right-angled circular protusions near the butt are indicators.

28th May 2018, 03:31 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Thanks for the feedback so far. We have a consensus that is definitely leading us in a particular direction. Will post the reference I found on this piece as soon as I can relocate it.

28th May 2018, 09:53 PM	#6
fireiceviper Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	I dunno, Amazonian / Brazil? not sure though... has it been lacquered?

30th May 2018, 04:49 AM	#8
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	So I have looked and looked and can’t find the reference. I do recall seeing an identical club in a museum database and they referenced a particular tribe in Ecuador. The club very much resembles Brazilian clubs but doesn’t have the typical patterned wrap like the Kayapo clubs but it does have the similar dome shaped top. The work at the bottom of the grip is similar to but different than the Brazilian examples. Also, this one is a reddish wood and most of the Brazilian examples of this form I have seen are brownish. Unsure if Ecuador is right but hopefully that museum example will turn up for me one day.