Dwi Warna or Empat (4) Warna?

Gustav · 23rd May 2018, 09:14 PM

And Selut/Pendokok is clearly South-Sumatran and fits the hilt so well, that it could be an original ensemble.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd May 2018, 11:00 PM

The arrangement of this pamor is unusual, but I do not see it as being any more difficult to make than any multiple pamor.

The individual blocks of pamor are brought together separately onto the core, then welded in place. One of the pamors in this blade is surface manipulated mlumah, the other is miring. The surface manipulation would have been done after the block of mlumah pamor was welded to the core.

For me, this is simply a different arrangement of two pamors on a fairly ordinary blade. As a complete, and fairly nice, but I believe, damaged, ensemble it is a nice piece for any collection. The hilt is really nice --- gading?

But I'm not too wound up about the blade itself.

Paul de Souza · 23rd May 2018, 11:55 PM

According to auction description the hulu is wood.

Alan. Thanks for feedback. I am intrigued by your description of the forging process but how would you do a surface manipulation of the mlumah without affecting the other half of the blade with the miring. I can't visualise it once the separate blocks are welded. In this case would it be 4 separate blocks, given the placement of the pamor?

A. G. Maisey · 24th May 2018, 12:45 AM

Wood? Well, its still nice, but now it goes down to nothing special at all. Pity.

As to forging.

There are perhaps a couple of ways in which the four separate blocks of pamor could be brought together onto the core. I think that the easiest would be to assemble the four blocks onto the core as a single package and bring together in the one welding operation.

Once assembled as a single block, depending on how that weld was done, the mlumah side of each face can be manipulated to create the pattern, essentially it is no different to doing the manipulation necessary for wiji timun, but you only do one half of the face instead of both halves of the one face. For a skilled pattern welder, easy --- and this blade is the work of a skilled welder.

There are a number of steps involved in this process that I am not prepared to describe in detail, however, the information is available through modern custom knife sources. I cannot go into detail because of undertakings I have given.

David · 24th May 2018, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

For me, this is simply a different arrangement of two pamors on a fairly ordinary blade. As a complete, and fairly nice, but I believe, damaged, ensemble it is a nice piece for any collection. The hilt is really nice --- gading?

Sorry if you misunderstood my wording Alan. By "tricky" i did not mean to suggest it was any more difficult to achieve than other dwi warno blades, just that it is tricky as in unexpected. Still something i had never seen done before. This is a keris i would gladly have added to my collection if it had been offered to me.
I believe the hilt is not ivory, but wood. Am i the only one who thinks the end of the beak broke off at some point and was refinished flat?

23rd May 2018, 09:14 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	And Selut/Pendokok is clearly South-Sumatran and fits the hilt so well, that it could be an original ensemble.

23rd May 2018, 11:00 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	The arrangement of this pamor is unusual, but I do not see it as being any more difficult to make than any multiple pamor. The individual blocks of pamor are brought together separately onto the core, then welded in place. One of the pamors in this blade is surface manipulated mlumah, the other is miring. The surface manipulation would have been done after the block of mlumah pamor was welded to the core. For me, this is simply a different arrangement of two pamors on a fairly ordinary blade. As a complete, and fairly nice, but I believe, damaged, ensemble it is a nice piece for any collection. The hilt is really nice --- gading? But I'm not too wound up about the blade itself.

23rd May 2018, 11:55 PM	#3
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 66	According to auction description the hulu is wood. Alan. Thanks for feedback. I am intrigued by your description of the forging process but how would you do a surface manipulation of the mlumah without affecting the other half of the blade with the miring. I can't visualise it once the separate blocks are welded. In this case would it be 4 separate blocks, given the placement of the pamor?

24th May 2018, 12:45 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Wood? Well, its still nice, but now it goes down to nothing special at all. Pity. As to forging. There are perhaps a couple of ways in which the four separate blocks of pamor could be brought together onto the core. I think that the easiest would be to assemble the four blocks onto the core as a single package and bring together in the one welding operation. Once assembled as a single block, depending on how that weld was done, the mlumah side of each face can be manipulated to create the pattern, essentially it is no different to doing the manipulation necessary for wiji timun, but you only do one half of the face instead of both halves of the one face. For a skilled pattern welder, easy --- and this blade is the work of a skilled welder. There are a number of steps involved in this process that I am not prepared to describe in detail, however, the information is available through modern custom knife sources. I cannot go into detail because of undertakings I have given.