An unusual javanese keris blade.

[Athanase]

Hello,

I'm trying to identify the Dapur of this blade of Keris.
It isn't a high quality blade and it's very damaged by rust but I liked its original shape.
After some research on the internet I feel that this blade is a mix between Dapur Anoman and Pandawa Karna Tinanding.

(The blade was just cleaned up at WD40 I have not soaked in vinegar yet).

[Marcokeris]

Nice old blade ...dapur PKT yes, but Anuman?

[David]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Nice old blade ...dapur PKT yes, but Anuman?

Forgive me Marco, but doesn't karno tinanding TWO sekar kacang? What i see here os a dhapur that seems to display two pudhak sategal, but not two sekar kacang. They seem oddly forced into the form. almost as if they were placed there as an after thought forcing them to be carved more deeply into the body of the keris than i would expect to see.

[A. G. Maisey]

In my opinion this keris cannot be given a definitive dhapur, by Central Javanese standards it is diluar pakem.

It is not Pandhowo Karno Tinanding.

It is close to Pudhak Setegal, Luk Lima, but the central groove is an addition to the blade that Pudhak Setegal does not have.

Hanoman has a continuation of the sogokan, that is a double central groove, not a single central groove, it also has a thingil or ripandan (depending on where you went to school), not a greneng.

However, all of this depends upon a Central Javanese form of appraisal. This blade is not Central Javanese, it is East Javanese, probably Maduro.

Opinions on dhapur can vary, dhapur designations are not set in stone and they are not universal. It is perhaps better to simply give a description of the blade characteristics (ricikan).

[Athanase]

Thank you very much to all of you for this information.
Even if the slide doesn't fit in the central Java classification, is it still possible to estimate its aproximative age?

[A. G. Maisey]

The pudhak setegal feature that gives this blade its name is not found in old keris.

The Javanese idea of "old keris" means keris that date from after Mataram Sultan Agung, so "new keris" are held to date from after 1645.

The feature of pudhak setegal did not become popular until the Surakarta era.

It is not possible to date this blade with any precision, in my opinion, and in consideration of the manipulated pamor and overall condition it would be reasonable to give it as 19th century.

[jagabuwana]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It is not possible to date this blade with any precision, in my opinion, and in consideration of the manipulated pamor and overall condition it would be reasonable to give it as 19th century.

Alan, what is meant by manipulated pamor?

[A. G. Maisey]

Pamor that has been changed from a normal mlumah motif, ie, wos wutah or similar.

It can be surface manipulated with punch work or file work, or it can be manipulated in the forge by bending, folding, twisting.

The pamor in this keris has been surface manipulated.

[Athanase]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey It is not possible to date this blade with any precision, in my opinion, and in consideration of the manipulated pamor and overall condition it would be reasonable to give it as 19th century.

Thank you Alan.
For the pamor it's not easy to see because the blade isn't cleaned or stained, but it looks a bit like pamor Tritik (but it is highly possible that after cleaning I will see that it is another pamor).

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes.