French (?) sword with strange number

kronckew · 16th May 2018, 10:54 AM

A Walloon sword with a Passau blade marked with the talisman 1414, again meaning unknown by the owner who sold it (not mine).

canos · 16th May 2018, 04:30 PM

An interesting explanation can be found in:
ARMES BLANCHES - SYMBOLISME, MARQUAGES, FOURBISSEURS, MANUFACTURES / Jean LHOSTE, Jean-Jacques BUIGNE / 3e impression / page
107 ff.

kronckew · 16th May 2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canos

An interesting explanation can be found in:
ARMES BLANCHES - SYMBOLISME, MARQUAGES, FOURBISSEURS, MANUFACTURES / Jean LHOSTE, Jean-Jacques BUIGNE / 3e impression / page
107 ff.

Can you please tell us what it is, preferably in English, as many of us a). do not speak French and b). do not have access to that book? Thanks.

fernando · 16th May 2018, 07:26 PM

Interesting that this talismanic number was still engraved on blades as late as in 1720. It was profusely marked in Passau blades as early as in the 16th century, if not before. Quoting some source, this magic number was composed with multiples and combinations of the number 7, in a mode to plea for divine help (quote) in all directions, when unsheathing the sword. But most probably the source mentioned by canos has a different interpretation, which we would like to know of.

canos · 16th May 2018, 08:09 PM

In conclusion it can said that for the inscription 1414 no exact signification can be found inspire of various attempts of interpretation. The most probable presumption is that the inscription engraved by the armourer was quite mysterious and was only known by the armourer himself. It was probably meant to offer some kind of protection, perhaps even a devine one.
" 1 4 1 4 " is a real talisman, undoutedly of biblical origin.

Hotspur · 17th May 2018, 01:18 AM

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm...14/dunateo.htm

mebbe

Greek/Hebrew Definitions

Strong's #1414: dunateo (pronounced doo-nat-eh'-o)

from 1415; to be efficient (figuratively):--be mighty.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

́dunateō

1) to be powerful or mighty

2) show one' s self powerful

3) to be able, have power

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: from G1415

Citing in TDNT: 2:284, 186

Usage:

This word is used 1 times:
2 Corinthians 13:3: "you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you."

Cheers
GC

Seems to agree and timely

http://kingjamesbibledictionary.com/...o/G1414/Mighty

The other is angelic and from Revelations. I would look at the King James period in relation to earliest use on a blade.

Victrix · 17th May 2018, 10:23 AM

Yes these talismatic symbols meanings have been lost in time it seems. Perhaps it’s pointless to seek to rationalize them too much as they are based on superstitions. I think palindromes and repeated numbers were considered particularly strong. These were tough times and people desperately sought solace where they could.

I found this which might be relevant too: http://biblehub.com/exodus/14-14.htm
The LORD will fight for you; you need only to be still."

corrado26 · 17th May 2018, 11:33 AM

A helpful collector friend sent me copies of the relevant pages of the above mentioned book. Here they are - in French language. The explanations are really very interesting and would be worth while to have them translated.
corrado26

16th May 2018, 04:30 PM	#2
canos Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 28	1 4 1 4 An interesting explanation can be found in: ARMES BLANCHES - SYMBOLISME, MARQUAGES, FOURBISSEURS, MANUFACTURES / Jean LHOSTE, Jean-Jacques BUIGNE / 3e impression / page 107 ff.

16th May 2018, 08:09 PM	#5
canos Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 28	Conclusion " 1414 " In conclusion it can said that for the inscription 1414 no exact signification can be found inspire of various attempts of interpretation. The most probable presumption is that the inscription engraved by the armourer was quite mysterious and was only known by the armourer himself. It was probably meant to offer some kind of protection, perhaps even a devine one. " 1 4 1 4 " is a real talisman, undoutedly of biblical origin.

17th May 2018, 11:33 AM	#8
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	A helpful collector friend sent me copies of the relevant pages of the above mentioned book. Here they are - in French language. The explanations are really very interesting and would be worth while to have them translated. corrado26 Attached Images

16th May 2018, 10:54 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	A Walloon sword with a Passau blade marked with the talisman 1414, again meaning unknown by the owner who sold it (not mine). Attached Images

16th May 2018, 07:26 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Interesting that this talismanic number was still engraved on blades as late as in 1720. It was profusely marked in Passau blades as early as in the 16th century, if not before. Quoting some source, this magic number was composed with multiples and combinations of the number 7, in a mode to plea for divine help (quote) in all directions, when unsheathing the sword. But most probably the source mentioned by canos has a different interpretation, which we would like to know of.

17th May 2018, 01:18 AM	#6
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm...14/dunateo.htm mebbe Greek/Hebrew Definitions Strong's #1414: dunateo (pronounced doo-nat-eh'-o) from 1415; to be efficient (figuratively):--be mighty. Thayer's Greek Lexicon: ́dunateō 1) to be powerful or mighty 2) show one' s self powerful 3) to be able, have power Part of Speech: verb Relation: from G1415 Citing in TDNT: 2:284, 186 Usage: This word is used 1 times: 2 Corinthians 13:3: "you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you." Cheers GC Seems to agree and timely http://kingjamesbibledictionary.com/...o/G1414/Mighty The other is angelic and from Revelations. I would look at the King James period in relation to earliest use on a blade.

17th May 2018, 10:23 AM	#7
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Yes these talismatic symbols meanings have been lost in time it seems. Perhaps it’s pointless to seek to rationalize them too much as they are based on superstitions. I think palindromes and repeated numbers were considered particularly strong. These were tough times and people desperately sought solace where they could. I found this which might be relevant too: http://biblehub.com/exodus/14-14.htm The LORD will fight for you; you need only to be still."