Estradiot Yataghan

ariel · 23rd April 2018, 03:37 PM

I do not think so. Shashka's ears are separated by very narrow slits, with no defined flat base at the bottom. Same is true ( to a lesser degree) in the case of yataghans..
I do suspect ( not sure!) that the eared handles of shashkas owe their existence to Turkish yataghans.
The main reason why I think it is a homage to the Estradiot " ear dagger" is the imitation of the rivet : in the original source it was a true securing device, attaching the ears to the tang. Here there is no rivet, just the decorative bosses located without any mechanical purpose, but imitating the external appearance of the Estradiot pattern. Secondarily, as I have mentioned before, the space between the base of the ears is very substantial, which is not seen either in the examples of yataghans or shashkas.

I checked the Internet, and there are quite a few perfect high-end 19th century copies of ear daggers. The fascination with them never disappeared. Mine is not a decorative copy, however; it is a perfectly functional and rather modest and unpretentious weapon recalling the old example.

Why do I think it is Greek? Solely on the basis of "silver/niello" ( admittedly very shaky argument, but an argument nevertheless). This combination was very popular in Crete, that was one of the later sources of the recruitment of Stratioti. Apparently, technique of niello decoration was brought to the Caucasus by the Greeks and this is actively supported by Asia Eutykh, a very famous contemporary Circassian jeweller, who even traces her heritage to them ( Eutychius). Greek trade settlements were very well represented in the coastal Caucasian areas, and may even go back to Jason and the Golden Fleece of Colchis:-) However, I would not dismiss North-Western Greece, Albania, Montenegro and Boka Kotorska ( for the latter see Elgood's book with their daggers: down-turned quillons resembling Moorish examples). They were all tightly connected to Venice and formed a bulk of Stratioti.
Bulgarian Karakulaks have totally different handles : very yataghan-ish with rudimentary ears. Nothing similar to my example.

TVV · 23rd April 2018, 09:48 PM

I have handled and seen quite a few "karakulaks", and this blade looks very much like one, based on overall shape, the integral bolster, the crude blade mark and the acid etch showing evidence of an inserted edge construction. If it was just a bare blade, without the two horn pieces on the hilt, I would identify it as a higher end karakulak.

That being said, the hilt is obviously different and quite possibly original - it was definitely put on the blade sometime ago. Even the fanciest karakulaks which have hilts of layers of horn and bone look nothing like this one in terms of shape and certainly in terms of the niello decoration on the rivet cap. Could it be a karakulak that was hilted somewhere in Epirus or Southern Macedonia? I honestly cannot say.

Teodor

ariel · 24th April 2018, 12:03 AM

Theodor,

I agree with you that the blade is very simple and could have been made anywhere in the Balkans. That is exactly the reason why I ignored it in my original discussion.

And yes, the handle is the plum in the pudding.

ariel · 20th October 2018, 03:02 PM

Just an aside about karakulaks.

I found a Russian paper about weapons of Karachay-Balkaria: Northern Caucasus region. The paper is written by Soltan Elkanov, a highly respected weapon historian from the above area, very objective and not given to jingoistic tendencies.
He shows examples of fighting knives from the Golden Horde ( upper two pics) and an example of two Crimean bichaqs.
IMHO, they are remarkably similar to Bulgarian karakulaks. He cites a French consul in Crimea ( 1757) describing mass production of knives ( up to 400,000 units per year) and exported to the Caucasus, Black Sea area ( Bulgaria??) etc.
Taken into account history of Bulgarian nation ( Asparukh), one can suggest a common origin of Kipchak/Kuman/Tatar weapons and Bulgarian karakulaks. My colleague Sergei Samgin and I published a paper about a potential source of Ottoman yataghans : Ottoman invasion of Crimea in 1475, closely preceding the first royal yataghans of Bayazet and Suleiman.

TVV · 21st October 2018, 06:28 PM

This is interesting food for thought, and there could be a link. In the early 14th century, the Golden Horde became an important ally to the Bulgarian state, and supplied troops to virtually all major battles fought by the Bulgarian tsars. These troops often proved to be the difference - they were late to arrive at Velbazhd, which to a great extent decided the outcome in favor of the Serbian Kingdom, for example. Tatar military equipment was certainly known and available in the Balkans.

kamachate · 13th November 2018, 07:16 PM

Dear all,
I am not qualified to talk on yataghans, but I want to draw some attention to the niello fittings. These ones on the sample (both the rivets and the one at the end of the pommel) remind me of the horse harness fittings of the Caucasian saddles. May I have the courage to suggest that these fittings are a secondary use from a saddle harness?

We do know that the harness fittings were used mostly on belts, but also bracelets, necklaces, and even on kindjals and shashkas. Here I attached two photos I just surfed on the net. Many -and precise parallels- can be found with a detailed search. So, IMHO, the "last touch" to the sample should be around the 2nd half of the 19th century, but the blade is of course an other story.

kamachate · 13th November 2018, 07:26 PM

Additionally, none of the niello fittings seem to be functional, which makes me think of some silver fittings from a harness used to dress it.
The pieces on a harness can easily be enough for a few "circassian" or "caucasian" belts, and yet some more will be spared for silver fittings where needed. I do have a similar piece on my shashka

20th October 2018, 03:02 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Just an aside about karakulaks. I found a Russian paper about weapons of Karachay-Balkaria: Northern Caucasus region. The paper is written by Soltan Elkanov, a highly respected weapon historian from the above area, very objective and not given to jingoistic tendencies. He shows examples of fighting knives from the Golden Horde ( upper two pics) and an example of two Crimean bichaqs. IMHO, they are remarkably similar to Bulgarian karakulaks. He cites a French consul in Crimea ( 1757) describing mass production of knives ( up to 400,000 units per year) and exported to the Caucasus, Black Sea area ( Bulgaria??) etc. Taken into account history of Bulgarian nation ( Asparukh), one can suggest a common origin of Kipchak/Kuman/Tatar weapons and Bulgarian karakulaks. My colleague Sergei Samgin and I published a paper about a potential source of Ottoman yataghans : Ottoman invasion of Crimea in 1475, closely preceding the first royal yataghans of Bayazet and Suleiman. Attached Images

13th November 2018, 07:16 PM	#6
kamachate Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 26	Dear all, I am not qualified to talk on yataghans, but I want to draw some attention to the niello fittings. These ones on the sample (both the rivets and the one at the end of the pommel) remind me of the horse harness fittings of the Caucasian saddles. May I have the courage to suggest that these fittings are a secondary use from a saddle harness? We do know that the harness fittings were used mostly on belts, but also bracelets, necklaces, and even on kindjals and shashkas. Here I attached two photos I just surfed on the net. Many -and precise parallels- can be found with a detailed search. So, IMHO, the "last touch" to the sample should be around the 2nd half of the 19th century, but the blade is of course an other story. Attached Images

23rd April 2018, 03:37 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not think so. Shashka's ears are separated by very narrow slits, with no defined flat base at the bottom. Same is true ( to a lesser degree) in the case of yataghans.. I do suspect ( not sure!) that the eared handles of shashkas owe their existence to Turkish yataghans. The main reason why I think it is a homage to the Estradiot " ear dagger" is the imitation of the rivet : in the original source it was a true securing device, attaching the ears to the tang. Here there is no rivet, just the decorative bosses located without any mechanical purpose, but imitating the external appearance of the Estradiot pattern. Secondarily, as I have mentioned before, the space between the base of the ears is very substantial, which is not seen either in the examples of yataghans or shashkas. I checked the Internet, and there are quite a few perfect high-end 19th century copies of ear daggers. The fascination with them never disappeared. Mine is not a decorative copy, however; it is a perfectly functional and rather modest and unpretentious weapon recalling the old example. Why do I think it is Greek? Solely on the basis of "silver/niello" ( admittedly very shaky argument, but an argument nevertheless). This combination was very popular in Crete, that was one of the later sources of the recruitment of Stratioti. Apparently, technique of niello decoration was brought to the Caucasus by the Greeks and this is actively supported by Asia Eutykh, a very famous contemporary Circassian jeweller, who even traces her heritage to them ( Eutychius). Greek trade settlements were very well represented in the coastal Caucasian areas, and may even go back to Jason and the Golden Fleece of Colchis:-) However, I would not dismiss North-Western Greece, Albania, Montenegro and Boka Kotorska ( for the latter see Elgood's book with their daggers: down-turned quillons resembling Moorish examples). They were all tightly connected to Venice and formed a bulk of Stratioti. Bulgarian Karakulaks have totally different handles : very yataghan-ish with rudimentary ears. Nothing similar to my example.

23rd April 2018, 09:48 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	I have handled and seen quite a few "karakulaks", and this blade looks very much like one, based on overall shape, the integral bolster, the crude blade mark and the acid etch showing evidence of an inserted edge construction. If it was just a bare blade, without the two horn pieces on the hilt, I would identify it as a higher end karakulak. That being said, the hilt is obviously different and quite possibly original - it was definitely put on the blade sometime ago. Even the fanciest karakulaks which have hilts of layers of horn and bone look nothing like this one in terms of shape and certainly in terms of the niello decoration on the rivet cap. Could it be a karakulak that was hilted somewhere in Epirus or Southern Macedonia? I honestly cannot say. Teodor

24th April 2018, 12:03 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Theodor, I agree with you that the blade is very simple and could have been made anywhere in the Balkans. That is exactly the reason why I ignored it in my original discussion. And yes, the handle is the plum in the pudding.

21st October 2018, 06:28 PM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	This is interesting food for thought, and there could be a link. In the early 14th century, the Golden Horde became an important ally to the Bulgarian state, and supplied troops to virtually all major battles fought by the Bulgarian tsars. These troops often proved to be the difference - they were late to arrive at Velbazhd, which to a great extent decided the outcome in favor of the Serbian Kingdom, for example. Tatar military equipment was certainly known and available in the Balkans.

13th November 2018, 07:26 PM	#7
kamachate Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 26	Additionally, none of the niello fittings seem to be functional, which makes me think of some silver fittings from a harness used to dress it. The pieces on a harness can easily be enough for a few "circassian" or "caucasian" belts, and yet some more will be spared for silver fittings where needed. I do have a similar piece on my shashka