bugis keris

A. G. Maisey · 15th March 2018, 01:45 AM

Hi La Pagaru,

I would have posted this question earlier, but at present I am away from home and moving around, so net access + time has been a bit restricted.

I refer to this statement of yours:-

"--- a little explanation about the variant of the existing bugis keris, which we must know, the bugis forging system is slightly different from the Javanese kris, and the difficulty level is much harder than the Javanese kris according to the recognition of some masters in Java and Madura---"

can you please explain for us precisely what it is that makes the Bugis forge process much more difficult than the forge process in Jawa and Madura.

I am very familiar with Javanese forge processes, both archaic and modern, and I am capable of understanding technical explanations of forge work, and of the carving work that follows the production of the forging.

Thank you for your consideration.

La Pagaru · 16th March 2018, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Hi La Pagaru,

I would have posted this question earlier, but at present I am away from home and moving around, so net access + time has been a bit restricted.

I refer to this statement of yours:-

"--- a little explanation about the variant of the existing bugis keris, which we must know, the bugis forging system is slightly different from the Javanese kris, and the difficulty level is much harder than the Javanese kris according to the recognition of some masters in Java and Madura---"

can you please explain for us precisely what it is that makes the Bugis forge process much more difficult than the forge process in Jawa and Madura.

I am very familiar with Javanese forge processes, both archaic and modern, and I am capable of understanding technical explanations of forge work, and of the carving work that follows the production of the forging.

Thank you for your consideration.

Dear mr iG maisy

of course, we call it hanging steel, I can not explain it in more detail, our forging system is much more difficult compared to that in Java, you would not believe me if I say that Java people imitate the making of pamor on kerisnya follow us, in our history recorded in our ancient records, that the king majapahit willing to marry his son with king luwu only for pamor and pamor techniques that are owned luwu or sulawesi

A. G. Maisey · 16th March 2018, 02:41 PM

Thank you for your response La Pagaru.

So, you do not know anything at all about the forging process that your smiths use except that some unidentified people have declared that it is much more difficult than the methods used in Jawa and other places?

Is this so?

When you are able to answer my question I will be very interested in just what these extreme difficulties faced by your smiths are.

I do understand that my name might be quite difficult for some non-native speakers of English to write, however, I would truly appreciate your courtesy in trying your best to copy the form of my name that I use in this forum:-

A. G. Maisey

If this is too difficult to remember, may I suggest that you copy and paste?

David · 16th March 2018, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by La Pagaru

of course, we call it hanging steel, I can not explain it in more detail, our forging system is much more difficult compared to that in Java, you would not believe me if I say that Java people imitate the making of pamor on kerisnya follow us, in our history recorded in our ancient records, that the king majapahit willing to marry his son with king luwu only for pamor and pamor techniques that are owned luwu or sulawesi

I would love to see such claims presented as substantiated facts when possible Andi. I would not be surprised if a Mojopahit king may have seen fit to create a marriage bond in order to obtain a direct line to the raw materials that mines in Luwu could provide. As i stated before, we are mostly all aware here of pamor Luwu and that it was prized in Jawa many years ago. But this is about resources and materials, not forging techniques. The Bugis did not teach that empus of Jawa how to forge. They were merely a source for some of the raw materials that skilled empus in Jawa then turned into fine keris. If you are going to make controversial statements like "our forging system is much more difficult compared to that in Java" or "Java people imitate the making of pamor on kerisnya follow us" you had better have something more than merely empty statements to back that up. Just saying something is so over and over again does not make it so.

La Pagaru · 16th March 2018, 05:24 PM

My apologies

I want to ask a little question here, is there among the masters in Java who use the technique of attaching steel to the pamor blade, which I mean not by clamping steel in the middle of prestige. but actually sticking the steel on the pamor blade that has been so, madura and jawa master have tried several times to imitate doing it, but they do it with the correct technique because I'm sure they do not know it, they put it in a way to weld it, but in bugis technique paste the steel with mengetehui steel hot spots that can adhere strongly on the blades, sorry friends and friends some friends in Java who have seen it first know it including ganjawulung pakbo you may know, and you should know that the iron in the by oxis has oblique sketches that are much older than those found in java, in the era of majapahit they not only import raw materials, but also bring their masters, I apologize for any mention of the name, and the matter of my english language still wearing google translete, and I did not mean to do that

A. G. Maisey · 17th March 2018, 01:27 AM

Thank you for your apology La Pagaru. If you are involving any online translation facility in your posts, I understand completely that any insult was completely unintentional.

In respect of your description of the Bugis forge technique, I am sorry, but I do not understand what you mean. Perhaps you could repeat your description in Bahasa Indonesia?

If you do not want to post in BI, you may care to send me a private message?

If you know somebody who understands forge work in detail, perhaps you could ask him to write the description of the technique?

David · 17th March 2018, 03:08 AM

Andi might be hesitant to make a rely in Bahasa Indonesian since we have had discussion about posting only in English in the past, but if you, Alan, are willing to present a complete translation once he has made such a post that will work for me, I would also like a better understanding of what he is trying to communicate because thus far it makes no sense to me either. Thanks!

La Pagaru · 17th March 2018, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Andi might be hesitant to make a rely in Bahasa Indonesian since we have had discussion about posting only in English in the past, but if you, Alan, are willing to present a complete translation once he has made such a post that will work for me, I would also like a better understanding of what he is trying to communicate because thus far it makes no sense to me either. Thanks!

Dear All

can i post in indonesia? while I've done that. and I was scolded for not doing that anymore

16th March 2018, 05:24 PM	#5
La Pagaru Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Indonesia Posts: 84	Dear all My apologies I want to ask a little question here, is there among the masters in Java who use the technique of attaching steel to the pamor blade, which I mean not by clamping steel in the middle of prestige. but actually sticking the steel on the pamor blade that has been so, madura and jawa master have tried several times to imitate doing it, but they do it with the correct technique because I'm sure they do not know it, they put it in a way to weld it, but in bugis technique paste the steel with mengetehui steel hot spots that can adhere strongly on the blades, sorry friends and friends some friends in Java who have seen it first know it including ganjawulung pakbo you may know, and you should know that the iron in the by oxis has oblique sketches that are much older than those found in java, in the era of majapahit they not only import raw materials, but also bring their masters, I apologize for any mention of the name, and the matter of my english language still wearing google translete, and I did not mean to do that

15th March 2018, 01:45 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Hi La Pagaru, I would have posted this question earlier, but at present I am away from home and moving around, so net access + time has been a bit restricted. I refer to this statement of yours:- "--- a little explanation about the variant of the existing bugis keris, which we must know, the bugis forging system is slightly different from the Javanese kris, and the difficulty level is much harder than the Javanese kris according to the recognition of some masters in Java and Madura---" can you please explain for us precisely what it is that makes the Bugis forge process much more difficult than the forge process in Jawa and Madura. I am very familiar with Javanese forge processes, both archaic and modern, and I am capable of understanding technical explanations of forge work, and of the carving work that follows the production of the forging. Thank you for your consideration.

16th March 2018, 02:41 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Thank you for your response La Pagaru. So, you do not know anything at all about the forging process that your smiths use except that some unidentified people have declared that it is much more difficult than the methods used in Jawa and other places? Is this so? When you are able to answer my question I will be very interested in just what these extreme difficulties faced by your smiths are. I do understand that my name might be quite difficult for some non-native speakers of English to write, however, I would truly appreciate your courtesy in trying your best to copy the form of my name that I use in this forum:- A. G. Maisey If this is too difficult to remember, may I suggest that you copy and paste?

17th March 2018, 01:27 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Thank you for your apology La Pagaru. If you are involving any online translation facility in your posts, I understand completely that any insult was completely unintentional. In respect of your description of the Bugis forge technique, I am sorry, but I do not understand what you mean. Perhaps you could repeat your description in Bahasa Indonesia? If you do not want to post in BI, you may care to send me a private message? If you know somebody who understands forge work in detail, perhaps you could ask him to write the description of the technique?

17th March 2018, 03:08 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Andi might be hesitant to make a rely in Bahasa Indonesian since we have had discussion about posting only in English in the past, but if you, Alan, are willing to present a complete translation once he has made such a post that will work for me, I would also like a better understanding of what he is trying to communicate because thus far it makes no sense to me either. Thanks!