WW2 KATANA, Dont think so / buyer beware

Kubur · 9th March 2018, 01:54 PM

More the people are stupids better it is for us:
the best deals come from wrong identifications!!
If we were all Einstein nobody will work in the factories!

Athanase · 9th March 2018, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

the best deals come from wrong identifications!!

Yes but often we do not find them because we do not search for keywords related to the bad identification.
And for fossils, misidentification will inflate the price if we put the name of another animal more "sexy" (the mammoth attracts more than the hippo ....) because often the buyers have only very little knowledge in paleontology, they just want beautiful fossils because cabinets of curiosities are in vogue!

Sajen · 9th March 2018, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

More the people are stupids better it is for us:
the best deals come from wrong identifications!!

Hi Kubur,

you are very correct! But I am special angry to the so called "experts" from catawiki as they have sold very recent art work keris of low quality for extremely high prices maybe because the "experts" say ok for a high price and let pass a description of antique/19th century for recent Madura keris "art". On the other hand an other expert valued an antique high end salawaku from my collection by only 200 Euro!

Regards,
Detlef

asomotif · 9th March 2018, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Kubur,

you are very correct! But I am special angry to the so called "experts" from catawiki as they have sold very recent art work keris of low quality for extremely high prices maybe because the "experts" say ok for a high price and let pass a description of antique/19th century for recent Madura keris "art". On the other hand an other expert valued an antique high end salawaku from my collection by only 200 Euro!

Regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef,

Catawiki does not sell, they offer the auction website.
It is the ignorant buyer who is willing to buy these keris at relatively high prices. I have noticed the same indded with often very simple javanese keris being sold for high prices.

I started this thread firstly to warn for chinese katana's being still offered as WW2 shin gunto on auction websites, and partially because I am also suprised about the sometimes strange auctions at Catawiki.
I have asked Catawiki a few questions regarding items and found that in some cases they refers to the sellers expertise. As probably in this case with the "WW2 "katana.
On the other hand I have heard that they can be very strict about what they accept for their website to be auctioned. as probably with your Salawaku.

I guess it must be impossible for them to have experts that now everything.
But they do have a some well known names and in these cases I have seen auctions where the expert(s) should have known better imho.

Anyway, always use your brain before bidding. Buyer beware.

Best regards,
Willem

Sajen · 9th March 2018, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Catawiki does not sell, they offer the auction website.

Hello Willem,
yes, of course you are correct, it's site similar to ebay. I should have said: "it get sold....on their site..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

It is the ignorant buyer who is willing to buy these keris at relatively high prices. I have noticed the same indded with often very simple javanese keris being sold for high prices..

I've contacted them as well in this issue with success, they ended all auctions with this wrong described keris.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

On the other hand I have heard that they can be very strict about what they accept for their website to be auctioned. as probably with your Salawaku.

Yes, they are. But the expert in this case wasn't able to see differences in quality and age. And this is something I am awaiting from an expert in ethnic antiques.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Anyway, always use your brain before bidding. Buyer beware.

Agree complete with you!

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 10th March 2018, 06:20 AM

Gents:

Please note this is a general comment and not directed at any one person in particular.

While we all decry the unethical practices of certain online auctions and individual sellers, please watch your language if you are discussing specific items and identities. In our litigious society you never know if this may get you or this site into trouble. The Moderators will edit posts that they think have crossed the line.

Over the years we have noted here a number of online sites and sellers that were not being accurate about the items they sold. Some of our members have attempted to inform the sellers of their mistakes, believing perhaps that these were made in error. When such mistakes were repeated by those individuals or sites, one could reasonably conclude that the recipient was incompetent, didn't care, or there was a willful intent to deceive and defraud the purchaser. But it's not up to us to label people as dishonest or the sellers of fakes. A reasonable reader should be able to infer that from a simple statement of the facts. We are not here to malign the miscreants but to inform potential victims about the pitfalls.

Ian.

Ian · 10th March 2018, 06:49 AM

On the subject of sites and sellers.

If a site functions as a place for auctions then it needs to have a code of ethical standards for its participants, and it should ensure all transactions comply with legal requirements. There is a fine line, however, between being incompetent and being fraudulent. It is not illegal to be ignorant or incompetent and end up selling something that is not actually what you said it was--a so-called "honest mistake." It is illegal to knowingly misrepresent an item for sale and thereby commit fraud.

Sites like Catawiki and eBay don't want to make this call. It's bad for business if you ban sellers for perceived fraud, especially if those people sue you and you can't prove it! So the hosting sites let a lot of things slide through. They just don't want to get into what the seller's intentions may have been.

Despite folks writing to sellers and sites, you can see why nothing much changes. That's why this forum can be useful -- as a source of reliable information regarding some of the more egregious misrepresentations that are out there.

Caveat emptor!!!

10th March 2018, 06:20 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Please proceed carefully on this topic Gents: Please note this is a general comment and not directed at any one person in particular. While we all decry the unethical practices of certain online auctions and individual sellers, please watch your language if you are discussing specific items and identities. In our litigious society you never know if this may get you or this site into trouble. The Moderators will edit posts that they think have crossed the line. Over the years we have noted here a number of online sites and sellers that were not being accurate about the items they sold. Some of our members have attempted to inform the sellers of their mistakes, believing perhaps that these were made in error. When such mistakes were repeated by those individuals or sites, one could reasonably conclude that the recipient was incompetent, didn't care, or there was a willful intent to deceive and defraud the purchaser. But it's not up to us to label people as dishonest or the sellers of fakes. A reasonable reader should be able to infer that from a simple statement of the facts. We are not here to malign the miscreants but to inform potential victims about the pitfalls. Ian.

10th March 2018, 06:49 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	On sites and sellers On the subject of sites and sellers. If a site functions as a place for auctions then it needs to have a code of ethical standards for its participants, and it should ensure all transactions comply with legal requirements. There is a fine line, however, between being incompetent and being fraudulent. It is not illegal to be ignorant or incompetent and end up selling something that is not actually what you said it was--a so-called "honest mistake." It is illegal to knowingly misrepresent an item for sale and thereby commit fraud. Sites like Catawiki and eBay don't want to make this call. It's bad for business if you ban sellers for perceived fraud, especially if those people sue you and you can't prove it! So the hosting sites let a lot of things slide through. They just don't want to get into what the seller's intentions may have been. Despite folks writing to sellers and sites, you can see why nothing much changes. That's why this forum can be useful -- as a source of reliable information regarding some of the more egregious misrepresentations that are out there. *Caveat emptor!!!*

9th March 2018, 01:54 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	More the people are stupids better it is for us: the best deals come from wrong identifications!! If we were all Einstein nobody will work in the factories!