Another Afghan Jezail?

BANDOOK · 22nd January 2018, 10:39 PM

Hi Victrix
Am posting my Jezail which has similar butt like your Rifle, but mine is made for non military use and has mother of pearl decoration on the butt and behind lock
Regards Rajesh

Victrix · 23rd January 2018, 09:03 AM

Hi Rajesh,

Thanks for posting pics of your Jezail. It’s a flintlock is it not? The butt is similar shape as you note. I plan to attach my Jezail to the wall in a similar way.

I had the idea that my Jezail could have been ordered locally in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan by a British Army officer stationed there and brought home to England with him? Windsor Caste is within walking distance of Eton and there are troops stationed there. That could explain the solid look of functionality and lack of decorations, i.e. more in Northern European taste?

Regards,

Pukka Bundook · 23rd January 2018, 01:25 PM

Victrix,

Rather than ordered by an officer, many were simply picked up after campaigns and brought back as keepsakes.
England seemed to be half full of ethnic stuff when I was a boy!
Vast amounts came home with returning soldiers.

Fernando K · 23rd January 2018, 02:47 PM

Hello

Just to say that the lock is not a regulatory lock, the word TOWER and the date, 1870 do not correspond to any regulatory weapon, and has been set for propaganda. The same for the royal crown. that has no figure of the ruling monarch. The same happened in many copies of the Enfield, produced by English and Belgian gunsmiths, to be sold, for example, to both contenders in the American War of Secession, and then sold to the South American countries in the Paraguay War.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Victrix · 23rd January 2018, 10:12 PM

Many thanks, Fernando. Nice to get some facts in after all the speculations!

BANDOOK · 25th January 2018, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Hi Rajesh,

Thanks for posting pics of your Jezail. It’s a flintlock is it not? The butt is similar shape as you note. I plan to attach my Jezail to the wall in a similar way.

I had the idea that my Jezail could have been ordered locally in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan by a British Army officer stationed there and brought home to England with him? Windsor Caste is within walking distance of Eton and there are troops stationed there. That could explain the solid look of functionality and lack of decorations, i.e. more in Northern European taste?

Regards,

Hi Victrix
I bought my jezail for England,Regards Rajesh

kahnjar1 · 25th January 2018, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Hi Victrix
I bought my jezail for England,Regards Rajesh

Hi Victrix,
To answer the question that you posed to Bandook....yes his is a flintlock, but with the top jaw missing from the cock.
Rick mentions above that these were often made without trigger guards. Here are a couple of pics of one I have made without a guard.
Stu

Victrix · 25th January 2018, 05:59 PM

Hi Stu,

Nice one! I prefer flintlocks before percussion myself. In terms of collectible items at least

.

What confuses me somewhat is that I feel my Jezail looks quite European apart from the butt. Yours look quite oriental just about everywhere. It could be that with the flintlocks your Jezails might be older and have more native appearance because foreign influences were yet to make inroads. Or as I suggested before, a local gunsmith might have customized my Jezail for a British Army client on order? If he wanted to take one back home to England with him he might have asked them to leave the traditional decorations off?

kahnjar1 · 26th January 2018, 07:05 PM

Hi Victrix,
IMHO the only part of your Jezail which COULD be European is the barrel. The rest appears to be typically Afghan/Northern India. The area was called the Northwest Frontier by the Brits.
As has been stated above, these guns were often made up from parts obtained from, and stolen from, the particular Colonial Power which held sway in the region. Also local gunmakers were (and are still) very much able to reproduce copies of guns. There are many good copies of Martini Henry and much more modern rifles (AKs) around which have been made in the back streets of general area.
I am of the opinion that if a British Serviceman was to want to take a "souvenir" home, he would not go to the trouble of have a gun custom made, but would rather just "acquire" one from a local Tribesman.
The lock on yours also appears to be a copy rather than the genuine item. Although the strikings are good, the letters TOWER are slightly out of line, which would be unlikely on the real thing. Perhaps you could detach the lock and post some pics of the inside?
Your Jezail IMHO is a good representation of the type, and the fact that it is likely a "local" gun, no way detracts from it's interest (or likely value).
As an aside, the lock on my Jezail without the trigger guard was the subject of discussion here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23563
Hope the above helps.
Stu

Victrix · 26th January 2018, 11:42 PM

Many thanks for that Stu. Interesting link.

I was not suggesting my Jezail was made in Europe, I only think it looks more designed for European tastes. But this may be because it’s a local attempt to imitate a foreign (at the time viewed as prestige) imported rifle. Also with the percussion lock it’s probably not as old as your flintlocks so British inflence had probably grown stronger by then. Also, Rajesh suggests that his rifle is more decorated because it might have been intended for more civilian use. I like the rifle for what it is. It looks really great!

22nd January 2018, 10:39 PM	#1
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Hi Victrix Am posting my Jezail which has similar butt like your Rifle, but mine is made for non military use and has mother of pearl decoration on the butt and behind lock Regards Rajesh Attached Images

23rd January 2018, 09:03 AM	#2
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Hi Rajesh, Thanks for posting pics of your Jezail. It’s a flintlock is it not? The butt is similar shape as you note. I plan to attach my Jezail to the wall in a similar way. I had the idea that my Jezail could have been ordered locally in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan by a British Army officer stationed there and brought home to England with him? Windsor Caste is within walking distance of Eton and there are troops stationed there. That could explain the solid look of functionality and lack of decorations, i.e. more in Northern European taste? Regards, Last edited by Victrix; 23rd January 2018 at 09:45 AM.

23rd January 2018, 01:25 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Victrix, Rather than ordered by an officer, many were simply picked up after campaigns and brought back as keepsakes. England seemed to be half full of ethnic stuff when I was a boy! Vast amounts came home with returning soldiers.

23rd January 2018, 02:47 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello Just to say that the lock is not a regulatory lock, the word TOWER and the date, 1870 do not correspond to any regulatory weapon, and has been set for propaganda. The same for the royal crown. that has no figure of the ruling monarch. The same happened in many copies of the Enfield, produced by English and Belgian gunsmiths, to be sold, for example, to both contenders in the American War of Secession, and then sold to the South American countries in the Paraguay War. Affectionately. Fernando K

23rd January 2018, 10:12 PM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Many thanks, Fernando. Nice to get some facts in after all the speculations!

25th January 2018, 05:59 PM	#8
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Hi Stu, Nice one! I prefer flintlocks before percussion myself. In terms of collectible items at least . What confuses me somewhat is that I feel my Jezail looks quite European apart from the butt. Yours look quite oriental just about everywhere. It could be that with the flintlocks your Jezails might be older and have more native appearance because foreign influences were yet to make inroads. Or as I suggested before, a local gunsmith might have customized my Jezail for a British Army client on order? If he wanted to take one back home to England with him he might have asked them to leave the traditional decorations off?

26th January 2018, 07:05 PM	#9
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Hi Victrix, IMHO the only part of your Jezail which COULD be European is the barrel. The rest appears to be typically Afghan/Northern India. The area was called the Northwest Frontier by the Brits. As has been stated above, these guns were often made up from parts obtained from, and stolen from, the particular Colonial Power which held sway in the region. Also local gunmakers were (and are still) very much able to reproduce copies of guns. There are many good copies of Martini Henry and much more modern rifles (AKs) around which have been made in the back streets of general area. I am of the opinion that if a British Serviceman was to want to take a "souvenir" home, he would not go to the trouble of have a gun custom made, but would rather just "acquire" one from a local Tribesman. The lock on yours also appears to be a copy rather than the genuine item. Although the strikings are good, the letters TOWER are slightly out of line, which would be unlikely on the real thing. Perhaps you could detach the lock and post some pics of the inside? Your Jezail IMHO is a good representation of the type, and the fact that it is likely a "local" gun, no way detracts from it's interest (or likely value). As an aside, the lock on my Jezail without the trigger guard was the subject of discussion here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23563 Hope the above helps. Stu

26th January 2018, 11:42 PM	#10
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Many thanks for that Stu. Interesting link. I was not suggesting my Jezail was made in Europe, I only think it looks more designed for European tastes. But this may be because it’s a local attempt to imitate a foreign (at the time viewed as prestige) imported rifle. Also with the percussion lock it’s probably not as old as your flintlocks so British inflence had probably grown stronger by then. Also, Rajesh suggests that his rifle is more decorated because it might have been intended for more civilian use. I like the rifle for what it is. It looks really great!