Balinese kris from Polish Museum

[Jean]

Hello Paul,
The kinatah of your kris looks recently made or refurbished from the pics, and the blade may be Javanese?
I attach the pic of a Javanese kris with an old blade but a recently made (about 1990) silver pendok with topengan.
Regards

[Paul B.]

Kinatah not very old I agree nor superbly made but blade has the perfect fit into a typical ladrang capu slot opening so why Javanese? NG pamor is a wellknown Madurese pamor.

[Paul B.]

Additional pic of slot.

[Paul B.]

Checked the blade and it measures from tip to ganja: 37 cm and showing a wide base and clotchy pamor so doubtfree a Madurese blade.

[David]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Checked the blade and it measures from tip to ganja: 37 cm and showing a wide base and clotchy pamor so doubtfree a Madurese blade.

Well Paul, i won't make any claims of origin since the photos provided don't give me a very good look at this blade, but Madura is right next to Jawa and it is considered a part of East Jawa. I would not be surprised to find a few Javanese blades in custom-fit Madurese dress. So that the blade is neatly fitted to the sheath is not really an indication that the blade was made in Madura.
I also don't see why you site the blade length as evidence of Madurese origin. 37 cm is well within the expected lengths of Javanese blades as well.
I am having a hard time seeing this kinatah as "superbly made", but maybe we just need to see closer, sharper images to understand what you see with the blade in hand.
BTW, we are here in this thread already so we should continue here, but the only similarity this keris has to the ones under discussion is the topengan. This keris probably would have been better suited to its own separate thread. Just something to think about for future postings.

[A. G. Maisey]

Let us look at this keris as it is supposed to seen.

Now, just exactly what classification are we looking at here?

Is it Madura, or is it one of the Javanese classifications?

Bear this in mind:- when we classify a keris, that is to say, when we propose a tangguh, we do not say "Jawa" first and then decide upon the tangguh, no, we firstly try to align the blade features with the classification indicators, we decide our tangguh opinion, and only then can we say:- "Jawa".

So, if this is a Javanese blade, what classification might it fit?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

So, if this is a Javanese blade, what classification might it fit?

Hello Alan,
I would not venture to assign a tangguh to this blade from the pics and just envisaged that it could be Javanese from its overall proportions and ricikan (kembang kacang, greneng) which look more Javanese than Madurese to me. I attach a pic of what I understand as a more typical wavy madurese blade.
Regards

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Kinatah not very old I agree nor superbly made but blade has the perfect fit into a typical ladrang capu slot opening so why Javanese? NG pamor is a wellknown Madurese pamor.

Hello Paul,
Ladrang Capu is a Central Javanese type of warangka (see book KJ page 306) but yours is clearly an East Javansese type (also found in Madura).
Regards