Wootz Shamshir

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by ariel

There would be no difference between a bar of monosteel bent over on itself multiple times and just an identical bar of the same monosteel used as is. As a matter of fact, the laminated one might be worse: the layers might not forge together to perfection without leaving defective spaces between them.

[...]
But there is perhaps only a single one able to make a long blade comparable to the best Persian or Indian ones: Georgian master Zaqro Nonikashvili. Google him.

Hello Ariel,

I beg to differ with your first statement!
Folding and hammering a piece of monosteel over itself serves the purpose of eliminating impurities and homogenizing the carbon content. It was a process widely used in the sword making in Persia and India. That's precisely why so many Tulwars ansd Shamshirs show clear signs of delamination these days.

In fact, the crack in the spine of Bryce's sword is a clear example of delamination.

Regarding the method of Zaqro Nonikashvili, in my posting I even provided a link to his method. And yes, he is probably the one who produces the best wootz. The Russian Ivan Kirpichev is also good but his results are not so consistent and he makes only small knives.

[ariel]

Sorry if I was less than precise.
By monosteel I mean truly uniform industrial grade European steel manufactured under tight conditions and with meticulous quality control. They did not require additional homogenization. Surely, lower quality steel manufactured in rather primitive and poorly controlled conditions will have variable composition in different areas. But monosteel Solingen, Birmingham and Zlatoust blades did not delaminate. Damascus gun barrels from Liege did, simply because they were deliberately composed of bars with different carbon content.

And yes, the seam on the spine might look like delamination. But not quite. The edges of the ingot with most impurities, slag and variable composition just could not be fused when forged under low temperatures needed for wootz. More precisely, it is not a delamination ( which implies past good lamination ), but an almost inavoidable defect of forging. They can be barely noticeable or ugly as hell. I have several wootz blades with them.

[mariusgmioc]

Hello Ariel,

I doubt that the crack in Bryce's blade is a manufacturing flaw. If it were, it would have been repaired with some bronze filling. I still believe it is a crack that appeared much later in the blade's life as a result of delamination. However, which of us is right would be rather impossible to check without a careful metallographic examination.

Moreover, even if it were a forging flaw, the precise forging process that involves fusing the edges of an ingot that was bent over itself is "lamination." So even of the defect appeared during the process itself, it would still be "delamination." Well at least that's how we called them during our metallurgy classes at the university.

Cheers!

Marius

[ariel]

You might be correct.

[shastardhari]

Very nice sir

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

I came across another image of the Lion Pictogram on a Persian blade. Very similar to mine, although a little better done. Again it shows that "face" peering over the lion's back, but in more detail this time.

Cheers,
Bryce

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,
I have often wondered what sort of material the grip is made from. It appears to be some sort of horn. Can any one shed some light on what sort of horn it is likely to be?
Cheers,
Bryce