Bali Keris for Comment.

Paul B. · 25th November 2017, 07:54 AM

Apart from the discussed name CENANGAN I have come across other (local) names as JAMPAKA - CAMPAKA - TJANGING - CANGIN - CANKRING - CECANGINAN - KAKI KUDA.
The last one is personally best known for this kind of handle.
But let's enjoy the beauty of it being inspired by nature: a thorny plant branch and a (lotus) flower on top.
The polychromic examples seems to be the oldest types.
Here are some others (the B/W are best known). Materials used can vary a lot.
The one with the whitish flower (seen from above) is from my one collection, others from the internet.
Leif: the little divots in the bumps could have had a filling as the square in the reproduced pic indicates.

A. G. Maisey · 25th November 2017, 07:45 PM

Oh yes?

Rafngard · 25th November 2017, 07:52 PM

Hello All,

Firstly, thanks to everyone who responded! I appreciate it!

Alan, you are as always a wealth of knowledge! Thank you both for clarifying on cenangan and on combong. You are an asset to this community.

Believe, especially when there are a number of believers, does have a certain power doesn't it? Whether in the very real placebo effect, or in how many fortunes are made or lost every day any stock market.

Thanks to both David and to Paul for providing more pics. Is it safe to say that this isn't a very common hilt style?

Paul, Yes! You're absolutely right! There is one with residual filling! I can't believe I missed this.

I tried to take a few close up photos of this, and a few others were there's residual filling. It looks a bit like a blackish? resin of some kind. Almost like a wax. A black filling would fit with the aesthetic of the other examples.

Anyone have any clue what it might be? I'm wondering it it's restorable.

Thanks!
Leif

Rafngard · 25th November 2017, 08:21 PM

I just found another example, one from Krisdisk, Page 5, Chapter 7. The full keris is on page 22

He says of it:
"A special variation of the wooden cylinder type is the Cecanginan/Danganan Tjanging hilt. Its name refers to Tjanging trunk, where the thorns have been chopped off. It may be a very old type of hilt as it seems to be mentioned in connection with Ken Arok ( first part of the 13th century)."

However, I'm given to understand that Jensen's words are to be taken with a grain of salt.

I wonder if the original aesthetic of mine was a bit like this, with the black tips.

Thanks,
Leif

kai · 25th November 2017, 09:55 PM

Hello Leif,

Yes, good examples of this type are not common.

Quote:

Paul, Yes! You're absolutely right! There is one with residual filling! I can't believe I missed this.

I tried to take a few close up photos of this, and a few others were there's residual filling. It looks a bit like a blackish? resin of some kind. Almost like a wax. A black filling would fit with the aesthetic of the other examples.

Anyone have any clue what it might be? I'm wondering it it's restorable.

Probably cutler's resin, at least from what can be seen in the older hilt. This mix should be much harder (after cooling down) than wax to take a polish and prove robust enough. If the remnants are wax-like it might be a later attempt to cosmetically fill the holes with hard wax as usual with antique furniture.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 26th November 2017, 01:57 AM

Mr. Jensen was a very committed enthusiast and he reseached as well as could be reasonably expected from outside the relevant societies. He has my very great respect. His one shortcoming was an almost total lack of grassroots field research, and inadequacy of language skills. He was a very notable contributor to the body of keris literature. His work must be respected, but it can be questioned.

Balinese decorative art is all about effect. These indentations could have had anything inserted. Gemstones, even low grade ones I think would be unlikely, but glass, or scraps of gold foil would be quite likely.

Paul you have mentioned that you found these other names you have provided as possible alternatives to "cenangan" as "local".

May I ask you to clarify the meaning of "local" in this context?

Thank you.

Paul B. · 26th November 2017, 08:20 AM

What's local...maybe skip that word and call it alternative names. Names given to it in different parts of Indonesian areas / islands.
Here another example in my collection, the one we all know wrapped around with cord (sometimes hair) but the flower on top makes it less common.
These are usually asociated with a walikat dress?

kai · 26th November 2017, 06:25 PM

Hello Paul,

Thanks for chiming in - it's good to see more input for keris Bali on this forum!

Quote:

Apart from the discussed name CENANGAN I have come across other (local) names as JAMPAKA - CAMPAKA - TJANGING - CANGIN - CANKRING - CECANGINAN - KAKI KUDA.
The last one is personally best known for this kind of handle.

Could you please indicate which of these names did you heard from Balinese when speaking Balinese? (I reckon that for this typical Balinese hilt, names given in BI or other foreign tongues are of little relevance, aren't they?)

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 26th November 2017, 08:34 PM

Thank very much for your prompt response to my question Paul, however, I do have something of a problem with the idea that people in "different parts of Indonesian areas / islands" would be able to place any legitimate name on a rather obscure Balinese hilt.

But first, to respond to your question. The sandang walikat wrongko is Javanese, the equivalent in Bali is the kajongan form. These two forms, ie, SW, and kajongan, have different applications in the two societies. The SW in Jawa can be worn in a frog (hanger) at the front by a ranking person in court attire, or it can be worn under a jacket, but in Bali the kajongan is considered to be suitable for use by young men. In Balinese society, the hilt designated as correct for use with a kajongan wrongko is the loncengan, a style which is related to the cenangan, and ultimately the gerantim, the gerantim of course being reserved for use by aristocrats.

In respect of names.
In my experience, which is not inconsiderable, even people living in an area where a keris hilt originates are unable to name the specific style of a hilt, one actually needs to speak with very senior people who are a part of the keris sub-culture in any area before it is possible to (perhaps) have a name placed upon a specific style of keris hilt.

All one will normally get from people outside the keris sub-culture is that a particular hilt is a "handle", for example, in Jawa it might be called a "gagang" by an educated person, or a person proficient in Basa Jawa, "tangkai" from a housewife, and from a person of one of the younger generations who was better schooled in BI than in Basa Jawa it would most likely get "pegangan".

But any keris hilt is generically a "jejeran" or an "ukiran", and there is a multitude of different styles, each with its own name, and quite frankly, very difficult to name correctly --- even for a very knowledgeable person. In fact probably the only people who could name correctly in a more or less consistent manner would be a tukang jejeran, or a m'ranggi who was from a line of these craftsmen.

However, in Jawa, and in Indonesia generally, most people are very reluctant not to give an answer when asked a question. The problem is, that the answer may not have a great deal of relevance to the question.

If we consider the names that you have suggested as alternatives to "cenangan", we can see a couple of small problems with those names, problems that could well be explained away because the informants were not Balinese, were not from an educated or current generation, or because of an accent.

CAMPAKA - TJANGING - CANGIN - CANKRING - CECANGINAN - KAKI KUDA

Probably "jampaka" & "campaka" are actually the same word; I do not know these words, is it possible that "cempaka" is intended? "cempaka" is the frangipani tree : frangipani tree branches tend to have lots of little lumps. This might be a description, rather than a name.

tjanging (pre1972 spelling) = canging

cangin is probably a misspelling of canging, the Balinese word that equates to the Javanese & BI word "cangkring"

cankring probably is intended to be cangkring, the cangkring tree is a kind of tree with big thorns, so I could see somebody likening this hilt style to a branch of this tree with the thorns cut off. Description, rather than name?

so probably cangin, tjanging, cankring are in fact all the same word --- or at least, intended to be so.

cecanginan, well, we've already agreed to disagree on this, so I'm happy to just let this one slide

kaki kuda is clearly not Balinese, it is Malay, or BI, so "kaki kuda" is probably a substitution for the well known "tapak kuda", which of course, this hilt is not; in Balinese the word "kaki" means "grandfather", "kaki" reflects the Balinese pronunciation of the BI & Javanese "kakek".

I think that most people who have been around this Forum for a while have some understanding of my ideas on the "name game", and with this little hilt we can see that game in full swing.

My stance is a rather obdurate one in these matters:-

a cultural object is owned by the people who own the culture from which the object comes, nobody else

those people who own the object are the only people who have the right to name it

If a person, or a group of people, from outside the relevant culture have an interest in an object from that culture, they have an obligation to use the terminology that applies within the culture; to do less than this is at the very least, tantamount to leveling insults at the relevant culture and the people who are its owners.

If we do not know the correct name for something, it is far better to use a generic name in our own language, than it is to invent a name, which when it comes to "Collectorese" is often no more than garbled ignorance.

For those of you who have an interest in this particular hilt style, there are some quite relevant and interesting comments in both "Keris Bali Bersejarah", and in "Keris Lombok".

25th November 2017, 07:54 AM	#1
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Bali Keris for Comment. Apart from the discussed name CENANGAN I have come across other (local) names as JAMPAKA - CAMPAKA - TJANGING - CANGIN - CANKRING - CECANGINAN - KAKI KUDA. The last one is personally best known for this kind of handle. But let's enjoy the beauty of it being inspired by nature: a thorny plant branch and a (lotus) flower on top. The polychromic examples seems to be the oldest types. Here are some others (the B/W are best known). Materials used can vary a lot. The one with the whitish flower (seen from above) is from my one collection, others from the internet. Leif: the little divots in the bumps could have had a filling as the square in the reproduced pic indicates. Attached Images

25th November 2017, 07:52 PM	#3
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 358	Hello All, Firstly, thanks to everyone who responded! I appreciate it! Alan, you are as always a wealth of knowledge! Thank you both for clarifying on cenangan and on combong. You are an asset to this community. Believe, especially when there are a number of believers, does have a certain power doesn't it? Whether in the very real placebo effect, or in how many fortunes are made or lost every day any stock market. Thanks to both David and to Paul for providing more pics. Is it safe to say that this isn't a very common hilt style? Paul, Yes! You're absolutely right! There is one with residual filling! I can't believe I missed this. I tried to take a few close up photos of this, and a few others were there's residual filling. It looks a bit like a blackish? resin of some kind. Almost like a wax. A black filling would fit with the aesthetic of the other examples. Anyone have any clue what it might be? I'm wondering it it's restorable. Thanks! Leif Attached Images

25th November 2017, 08:21 PM	#4
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 358	I just found another example, one from Krisdisk, Page 5, Chapter 7. The full keris is on page 22 He says of it: "A special variation of the wooden cylinder type is the Cecanginan/Danganan Tjanging hilt. Its name refers to Tjanging trunk, where the thorns have been chopped off. It may be a very old type of hilt as it seems to be mentioned in connection with Ken Arok ( first part of the 13th century)." However, I'm given to understand that Jensen's words are to be taken with a grain of salt. I wonder if the original aesthetic of mine was a bit like this, with the black tips. Thanks, Leif Attached Images

26th November 2017, 01:57 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,061	Mr. Jensen was a very committed enthusiast and he reseached as well as could be reasonably expected from outside the relevant societies. He has my very great respect. His one shortcoming was an almost total lack of grassroots field research, and inadequacy of language skills. He was a very notable contributor to the body of keris literature. His work must be respected, but it can be questioned. Balinese decorative art is all about effect. These indentations could have had anything inserted. Gemstones, even low grade ones I think would be unlikely, but glass, or scraps of gold foil would be quite likely. Paul you have mentioned that you found these other names you have provided as possible alternatives to "cenangan" as "local". May I ask you to clarify the meaning of "local" in this context? Thank you. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 26th November 2017 at 05:19 AM.

26th November 2017, 08:20 AM	#7
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	What's local...maybe skip that word and call it alternative names. Names given to it in different parts of Indonesian areas / islands. Here another example in my collection, the one we all know wrapped around with cord (sometimes hair) but the flower on top makes it less common. These are usually asociated with a walikat dress? Attached Images

25th November 2017, 07:45 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,061	Oh yes?

26th November 2017, 08:34 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,061	Thank very much for your prompt response to my question Paul, however, I do have something of a problem with the idea that people in "different parts of Indonesian areas / islands" would be able to place any legitimate name on a rather obscure Balinese hilt. But first, to respond to your question. The sandang walikat wrongko is Javanese, the equivalent in Bali is the kajongan form. These two forms, ie, SW, and kajongan, have different applications in the two societies. The SW in Jawa can be worn in a frog (hanger) at the front by a ranking person in court attire, or it can be worn under a jacket, but in Bali the kajongan is considered to be suitable for use by young men. In Balinese society, the hilt designated as correct for use with a kajongan wrongko is the loncengan, a style which is related to the cenangan, and ultimately the gerantim, the gerantim of course being reserved for use by aristocrats. In respect of names. In my experience, which is not inconsiderable, even people living in an area where a keris hilt originates are unable to name the specific style of a hilt, one actually needs to speak with very senior people who are a part of the keris sub-culture in any area before it is possible to (perhaps) have a name placed upon a specific style of keris hilt. All one will normally get from people outside the keris sub-culture is that a particular hilt is a "handle", for example, in Jawa it might be called a "gagang" by an educated person, or a person proficient in Basa Jawa, "tangkai" from a housewife, and from a person of one of the younger generations who was better schooled in BI than in Basa Jawa it would most likely get "pegangan". But any keris hilt is generically a "jejeran" or an "ukiran", and there is a multitude of different styles, each with its own name, and quite frankly, very difficult to name correctly --- even for a very knowledgeable person. In fact probably the only people who could name correctly in a more or less consistent manner would be a tukang jejeran, or a m'ranggi who was from a line of these craftsmen. However, in Jawa, and in Indonesia generally, most people are very reluctant not to give an answer when asked a question. The problem is, that the answer may not have a great deal of relevance to the question. If we consider the names that you have suggested as alternatives to "cenangan", we can see a couple of small problems with those names, problems that could well be explained away because the informants were not Balinese, were not from an educated or current generation, or because of an accent. CAMPAKA - TJANGING - CANGIN - CANKRING - CECANGINAN - KAKI KUDA Probably "jampaka" & "campaka" are actually the same word; I do not know these words, is it possible that "cempaka" is intended? "cempaka" is the frangipani tree : frangipani tree branches tend to have lots of little lumps. This might be a description, rather than a name. tjanging (pre1972 spelling) = canging cangin is probably a misspelling of canging, the Balinese word that equates to the Javanese & BI word "cangkring" cankring probably is intended to be cangkring, the cangkring tree is a kind of tree with big thorns, so I could see somebody likening this hilt style to a branch of this tree with the thorns cut off. Description, rather than name? so probably cangin, tjanging, cankring are in fact all the same word --- or at least, intended to be so. cecanginan, well, we've already agreed to disagree on this, so I'm happy to just let this one slide kaki kuda is clearly not Balinese, it is Malay, or BI, so "kaki kuda" is probably a substitution for the well known "tapak kuda", which of course, this hilt is not; in Balinese the word "kaki" means "grandfather", "kaki" reflects the Balinese pronunciation of the BI & Javanese "kakek". I think that most people who have been around this Forum for a while have some understanding of my ideas on the "name game", and with this little hilt we can see that game in full swing. My stance is a rather obdurate one in these matters:- a cultural object is owned by the people who own the culture from which the object comes, nobody else those people who own the object are the only people who have the right to name it If a person, or a group of people, from outside the relevant culture have an interest in an object from that culture, they have an obligation to use the terminology that applies within the culture; to do less than this is at the very least, tantamount to leveling insults at the relevant culture and the people who are its owners. If we do not know the correct name for something, it is far better to use a generic name in our own language, than it is to invent a name, which when it comes to "Collectorese" is often no more than garbled ignorance. For those of you who have an interest in this particular hilt style, there are some quite relevant and interesting comments in both "Keris Bali Bersejarah", and in "Keris Lombok".