Were S. Asian weapons designed to be used together?

[Roland_M]

Hello,

if you hold both of the blades, your forearm is not longer perfectly aligned with the Katar. This means, you will either hurt your wrist or you make the katar quite useless.


Roland

[Battara]

I've been watching and reading this thread. I guess it is possible, but Roland brings up a good point. I want to add to his argument with the force of impact.

If the grip is not tight then the force of impact can either make the weapon ineffective at best or at worst cripple the hand or arm. If struck at right angles, the other weapon can become a liability.

Now if both weapons or blades are integrated into one single strong piece, then these issues are lessoned.

[shayde78]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hello,

if you hold both of the blades, your forearm is not longer perfectly aligned with the Katar. This means, you will either hurt your wrist or you make the katar quite useless.


Roland

Thank you everyone for your thoughts on this question so far. I appreciate the dialogue.

Roland and Battara,

You make good points, and surely the ergonomics must be considered. However, the bichwa's design is to fit below the fingers and around the palm, leaving the fingers free. With the hilt of the example pictured, it marries nicely against the cross bars of the katar. The alignment for the thrust is not affected, and may even be improved (granted, that could just be a function of my larger hands). I've added some more pics to show better angles of how the simultaneous grasping doesn't seem to impede the ability to wield and engage either weapon.

Also, since posting this, it occurred to me that the allusion to a scorpion's stinger is strengthened when hold these weapons together in this configuration. I know I have never seen this suggested before, so I get that my suggestion is probably a bit far fetched, but I'd still love to see more examples put together in such a manner to see if they generally pair so well, or are my two examples just strangely well suited to one another. Heck, I met my wife and she is tolerates me well enough, so I guess anything is possible!

[Mercenary]

Very interesting. But in reality used only tulvar and shield without any fantasies and such modern perversions

[Roland_M]

Two knifes in one hand might be unusual. One needs full control over both blades with one hand. If this is given, why not.

But I think a combination of a light and long knife and a small shield truly make sense. This would turn the shield hand into a powerfull weapon.
And here is the possible combination. The blade measures 37 cm (49 cm total) and weighs only 316 grams.

At least there are existing examples of renaissance Italian shield-sword combinations with multiple blades fixed on the shield.


Roland

[ariel]

And not only Italian.
Closer to the topic, see shields with built-in blades of the North-East Indian Santal tribe.
I am with Battara and Roland.

[Mercenary]

Now we need to take an Indian fist shield as it kept actually (not like in the picture), take a chilanum or a straight katari (the usual weapons of the Indian warriors instead of peshkabz) and get on it a nice blow of heavy sword. It will be interesting. Also we can still read the memories of British and French officers of the 18th and 19th centuries and learn what kind of weapons and in what ways were used by Indians in real battles

[Mercenary]

to shayde78
The most part of bichua-daggers were made for right hand. So someone needs a long time to put a bichua on his right hand then take a kutar and where he should go after? Dagger in right hand it is needed only for surprise attack or for cutting head off. Against the opponent with a sword someone needs only a sword. And shield. And dagger on his waist as a last implement. Or we are discussing the Indian ninjas instead of real history and historical weapons?

[Timo Nieminen]

The bichwa hilt does appear to be deliberately designed to let you keep holding the weapon while using your hand for something else. I've seen the suggestion that this would be useful for wrestling. If nothing else, I think the hilt might be good for weapon retention during wrestling.

They might be good archer's daggers, along the lines of African loop daggers: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1882

[MitsuWa.]

Your pictures seem to further illustrate the misalignment of the Katar to your forearm with the Bitchwa crossing over the side bars like that? If you are comfortable doing so I wonder what would happen if you were to punch a solid target with your Katar, besides being misaligned looks like a possibility of a couple of bruised middle fingers at the very least the way your hand is crowded against the base of the blade with that grip.

Originally Posted by shayde78

Thank you everyone for your thoughts on this question so far. I appreciate the dialogue.

Roland and Battara,

You make good points, and surely the ergonomics must be considered. However, the bichwa's design is to fit below the fingers and around the palm, leaving the fingers free. With the hilt of the example pictured, it marries nicely against the cross bars of the katar. The alignment for the thrust is not affected, and may even be improved (granted, that could just be a function of my larger hands). I've added some more pics to show better angles of how the simultaneous grasping doesn't seem to impede the ability to wield and engage either weapon.

Also, since posting this, it occurred to me that the allusion to a scorpion's stinger is strengthened when hold these weapons together in this configuration. I know I have never seen this suggested before, so I get that my suggestion is probably a bit far fetched, but I'd still love to see more examples put together in such a manner to see if they generally pair so well, or are my two examples just strangely well suited to one another. Heck, I met my wife and she is tolerates me well enough, so I guess anything is possible!