Difficulty’s in working with meteorite as a pamor material

nechesh · 21st March 2006, 12:07 AM

Thank you Boedhi Adhitya for reminding everyone that terrestial iron is considered very magickal in keris making, probably as much if not more so than meteorite. In fact, iron is a material that has been considered very powerful and magickal by cultures all around the world for a very long time.
Thanks also for the link to the article on Innuit meteorite blades. Isn't it nice that when Perry discovered the source of their iron that he set out to steal it all.

I did not mean to imply in my earlier response to Pusaka that 70% or even pure meteoric blades were not possible to forge, just that i doubted deeply that you would find such a make-up in a keris. I have seen such blades before, including this marvelous blade below. It is apparently in the hands of Harold Jacobs, an Alaskan native American. He states that it was one of 2 blades made from a fall near Klukwan many generations ago by a man names Khu ch'eesh. It is 27" long.

VANDOO · 21st March 2006, 01:21 AM

THE PERCENTAGE OF METEORITE IN A BLADE SHOULD NOT HAVE A LARGE EFFECT ON THE MAGICAL POWER OF THE WEAPON. THE SOURCE OF THE METEORITE WOULD , FOR INSTANCE IN INDONESIA A BLADE WITH SOME OF THE SAME METEORITE USED BY THE ROYAL COURT IN THE OLD DAYS WOULD BE CONSIDERED MORE POWERFUL AND DESIRABLE THAN SPECIMINS FROM AFRICA OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY. A MAGICAL TAILSMAN NEED NOT BE LARGE TO HAVE POWER AS THE POWER IS IN THE BELIEF, FAITH AND RESPECT OF THE OWNER. MAGIC IS NOT LIKE MAKEING 10000 GALLONS OF CHICKEN SOUP WITH ONLY ONE SMALL CHICKEN AND WATER ,MAGIC ISN'T DILUTED AND DOSEN'T LOSE ITS STRENGTH AS LONG IS THE BELIEF IS STILL THERE.

IF I WERE WANTING TO MAKE A LOT OF MAGICAL KERIS I WOULD GATHER UP SOME SCRAP OF OLD KERIS, SEVERAL METEORS AND A LOT OF IRON. I WOULD THEN PICK A TIME OF THE YEAR CONSIDERED TO BE STEEPED IN MAGIC PERHAPS THE SOLSTICE. THEN TAKE THIS TO A SPOT OF POWER ON THE EARTH THE NEAREST ONE I KNOW OF TO ME IS ENCHANTED ROCK IN TEXAS. IT IS THE THIRD LARGEST MONOLITH ON EARTH, AYERS ROCK IS LARGEST, STONE MOUNTAIN NEAR ATLANTA IS SECOND. I WOULD WATCH THE WEATHER FOR A FORECAST OF A GOOD STRONG STORM AND THEN TAKE THE MATERIALS TO THE TOP AND PUT UP A LIGHTNING ROD IN THE CENTER OF IT AND WHEN A BIG STORM CAME THRU IT WOULD RECEIVE MULTIPLE STRIKES. THAT SHOULD CHARGE UP THE METALS IF ANYTHING COULD, AND THEN TAKE IT COMBINE IT AND MAKE AS MANY KERIS BLADES AS POSSIBLE FROM IT OR PERHAPS HAVE A NOTED PANDAY MAKE THEM WITH THE PROPER RITUALS. TO GET LIGHTENING CHARGED IRON WITHOUT THE TROUBBLE USE OLD LIGHTNING RODS IN THE MIX, SOME OFF THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING WOULD BE COOL IF THEY ARE EVER REPLACED.

A CHEAP EASY WAY TO MAKE ALL YOUR EDGED WEAPONS METEORITE POWERED, TAKE A METEORITE AND RUB IT GENTLY ALONG THE BLADE TRANSFERING A LITTLE CHARGE AND A FEW MOLECULES TO THE BLADE.

I DON'T PERSONALLY BELIEVE IN MYSTICISM OR MAGIC BUT DO UNDERSTAND WHY SOME DO. THERE ARE MANY FORCES AND THINGS HERE THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE SENSES TO DETECT AND MUCH MORE THAT WE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND SO I GUESS I AM STILL A BIT TRIBAL.

BSMStar · 24th March 2006, 07:29 PM

Gee, have I been asleep at the wheel...

It is possible to determine if there is a meteoritic content with a minimally destructive test. The issue is finding an Electron Microprobe...

The surface must have a very small area polished (that is the destructiveness of the test). The Electron Microprobe will determine what elements are available. Earth surface rocks do not have the same availability of trace elements as meteorites. The trace elements are the fingerprint used to identify cosmic materials. Therefore, even if there is only one percent meteoritic material in the metal, it is still possible to tell if meteoritic material is present or not.

If there is only a small percentage of meteoritic material in a Keris, then looking at Ni content alone will not be an indicator of cosmic origin since the majority of Ni is not from the meteorite itself. Therefore, short of testing, there really is no way to know if a Keris has meteoritic material in it.

Great article Rick!

VANDOO · 27th December 2011, 03:30 AM

HERE ARE 3 EXAMPLES OF KNIVES WHERE THE BLADES ARE MADE FROM A SLAB OF NATURAL UNFORGED METEORITE. THEY ARE JUST SHAPED AND POLISHED MECHANICALY. TWO ARE FROM THE GIBEON METEORITE AND PART OF THE OUTER SURFACE OF THE METEORITE WAS LAFT NATURAL UNWORKED OR POLISHED. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS TYPE OF BLADE WOULD HOLD UP, BRITTLE, NOT TAKEING OR HOLDING A GOOD EDGE

AT ANY RATE THIS DOES SHOW METEORITES COULD HAVE BEEN WORKED USING PRIMATIVE METHODS SO A OLD UNFORGED METEORITE BLADE IS NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION.

VANDOO · 2nd June 2016, 07:46 PM

I JUST RAN ACROSS A CURRENT ARTICLE ON ONE OF THE DAGGERS FOUND IN KING TUTS TOMB. THEY ARE SAYING THE IRON BLADE IS LIKELY MADE FROM A IRON NICKEL METEORITE. A PICTURE OF THE DAGGER.

Bob A · 2nd June 2016, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I JUST RAN ACROSS A CURRENT ARTICLE ON ONE OF THE DAGGERS FOUND IN KING TUTS TOMB. THEY ARE SAYING THE IRON BLADE IS LIKELY MADE FROM A IRON NICKEL METEORITE. A PICTURE OF THE DAGGER.

A link to above:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...aps.12664/full

I was surprised that the authors of the paper seemed unaware of the use of meteoric iron in the Indonesian culture.

David · 3rd June 2016, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob A

A link to above:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...aps.12664/full

I was surprised that the authors of the paper seemed unaware of the use of meteoric iron in the Indonesian culture.

I don't think it is so much a matter of being unaware of meteoric use in Indonesia as much as that their focus is more on the use of that material by ancient peoples.
The remarkable thing about this dagger is that it was created at least a century before the acknowledged start of the Iron Age and many centuries before edged weapons were commonly made of iron.

Battara · 3rd June 2016, 03:51 AM

Just a note: most of the "meteorite" blades claimed by dealers are not meteorite but laminated local steels.

21st March 2006, 12:07 AM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Thank you Boedhi Adhitya for reminding everyone that terrestial iron is considered very magickal in keris making, probably as much if not more so than meteorite. In fact, iron is a material that has been considered very powerful and magickal by cultures all around the world for a very long time. Thanks also for the link to the article on Innuit meteorite blades. Isn't it nice that when Perry discovered the source of their iron that he set out to steal it all. I did not mean to imply in my earlier response to Pusaka that 70% or even pure meteoric blades were not possible to forge, just that i doubted deeply that you would find such a make-up in a keris. I have seen such blades before, including this marvelous blade below. It is apparently in the hands of Harold Jacobs, an Alaskan native American. He states that it was one of 2 blades made from a fall near Klukwan many generations ago by a man names Khu ch'eesh. It is 27" long. Attached Images

24th March 2006, 07:29 PM	#3
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	It is in the trace elements... Gee, have I been asleep at the wheel... It is possible to determine if there is a meteoritic content with a minimally destructive test. The issue is finding an Electron Microprobe... The surface must have a very small area polished (that is the destructiveness of the test). The Electron Microprobe will determine what elements are available. Earth surface rocks do not have the same availability of trace elements as meteorites. The trace elements are the fingerprint used to identify cosmic materials. Therefore, even if there is only one percent meteoritic material in the metal, it is still possible to tell if meteoritic material is present or not. If there is only a small percentage of meteoritic material in a Keris, then looking at Ni content alone will not be an indicator of cosmic origin since the majority of Ni is not from the meteorite itself. Therefore, short of testing, there really is no way to know if a Keris has meteoritic material in it. Great article Rick!

27th December 2011, 03:30 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE ARE 3 EXAMPLES OF KNIVES WHERE THE BLADES ARE MADE FROM A SLAB OF NATURAL UNFORGED METEORITE. THEY ARE JUST SHAPED AND POLISHED MECHANICALY. TWO ARE FROM THE GIBEON METEORITE AND PART OF THE OUTER SURFACE OF THE METEORITE WAS LAFT NATURAL UNWORKED OR POLISHED. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS TYPE OF BLADE WOULD HOLD UP, BRITTLE, NOT TAKEING OR HOLDING A GOOD EDGE AT ANY RATE THIS DOES SHOW METEORITES COULD HAVE BEEN WORKED USING PRIMATIVE METHODS SO A OLD UNFORGED METEORITE BLADE IS NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION. Attached Images

2nd June 2016, 07:46 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I JUST RAN ACROSS A CURRENT ARTICLE ON ONE OF THE DAGGERS FOUND IN KING TUTS TOMB. THEY ARE SAYING THE IRON BLADE IS LIKELY MADE FROM A IRON NICKEL METEORITE. A PICTURE OF THE DAGGER. Attached Images

21st March 2006, 01:21 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE PERCENTAGE OF METEORITE IN A BLADE SHOULD NOT HAVE A LARGE EFFECT ON THE MAGICAL POWER OF THE WEAPON. THE SOURCE OF THE METEORITE WOULD , FOR INSTANCE IN INDONESIA A BLADE WITH SOME OF THE SAME METEORITE USED BY THE ROYAL COURT IN THE OLD DAYS WOULD BE CONSIDERED MORE POWERFUL AND DESIRABLE THAN SPECIMINS FROM AFRICA OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY. A MAGICAL TAILSMAN NEED NOT BE LARGE TO HAVE POWER AS THE POWER IS IN THE BELIEF, FAITH AND RESPECT OF THE OWNER. MAGIC IS NOT LIKE MAKEING 10000 GALLONS OF CHICKEN SOUP WITH ONLY ONE SMALL CHICKEN AND WATER ,MAGIC ISN'T DILUTED AND DOSEN'T LOSE ITS STRENGTH AS LONG IS THE BELIEF IS STILL THERE. IF I WERE WANTING TO MAKE A LOT OF MAGICAL KERIS I WOULD GATHER UP SOME SCRAP OF OLD KERIS, SEVERAL METEORS AND A LOT OF IRON. I WOULD THEN PICK A TIME OF THE YEAR CONSIDERED TO BE STEEPED IN MAGIC PERHAPS THE SOLSTICE. THEN TAKE THIS TO A SPOT OF POWER ON THE EARTH THE NEAREST ONE I KNOW OF TO ME IS ENCHANTED ROCK IN TEXAS. IT IS THE THIRD LARGEST MONOLITH ON EARTH, AYERS ROCK IS LARGEST, STONE MOUNTAIN NEAR ATLANTA IS SECOND. I WOULD WATCH THE WEATHER FOR A FORECAST OF A GOOD STRONG STORM AND THEN TAKE THE MATERIALS TO THE TOP AND PUT UP A LIGHTNING ROD IN THE CENTER OF IT AND WHEN A BIG STORM CAME THRU IT WOULD RECEIVE MULTIPLE STRIKES. THAT SHOULD CHARGE UP THE METALS IF ANYTHING COULD, AND THEN TAKE IT COMBINE IT AND MAKE AS MANY KERIS BLADES AS POSSIBLE FROM IT OR PERHAPS HAVE A NOTED PANDAY MAKE THEM WITH THE PROPER RITUALS. TO GET LIGHTENING CHARGED IRON WITHOUT THE TROUBBLE USE OLD LIGHTNING RODS IN THE MIX, SOME OFF THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING WOULD BE COOL IF THEY ARE EVER REPLACED. A CHEAP EASY WAY TO MAKE ALL YOUR EDGED WEAPONS METEORITE POWERED, TAKE A METEORITE AND RUB IT GENTLY ALONG THE BLADE TRANSFERING A LITTLE CHARGE AND A FEW MOLECULES TO THE BLADE. I DON'T PERSONALLY BELIEVE IN MYSTICISM OR MAGIC BUT DO UNDERSTAND WHY SOME DO. THERE ARE MANY FORCES AND THINGS HERE THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE SENSES TO DETECT AND MUCH MORE THAT WE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND SO I GUESS I AM STILL A BIT TRIBAL.

3rd June 2016, 03:51 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,305	Just a note: most of the "meteorite" blades claimed by dealers are not meteorite but laminated local steels.