Stubby Sabre with blade marks

Jon MB · 28th October 2017, 02:18 PM

Excellent, thank you for the input, Jim. It seems little used, post refurb.

Jim McDougall · 28th October 2017, 02:28 PM

You bet Jon!
Actually in my opinion, these reworked combinations which do seem to have seen some use post refurbishing, are most interesting. Many do not seem to realize that edged weapons often had long working lives even generations after the original components had been produced. This is especially true in remote or colonial locations where virtually everything was recycled. I have seen these kinds of combinations a lot in Mexican context where old elements of various previous types of swords were combined.
One had a briquette grip, a three bar guard and an old Spanish dragoon blade cut down with the 'Spanish motto' still legible.

kronckew · 28th October 2017, 07:37 PM

the grip looks like it should be wrapped in something, twisted/braided wire, leather, rayskin, anything.

Will M · 28th October 2017, 09:09 PM

Interesting blade, the grip once had leather but long gone. One bar is missing and where it once joined the guard it has been filed smooth as not to be noticeable. I think the blade may be older than the hilt.

fernando · 28th October 2017, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

the grip looks like it should be wrapped in something, twisted/braided wire, leather, rayskin, anything.

Sure thing

.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th October 2017, 10:19 AM

Napolionic Helmet Style Pommel... 44 stamp no idea.... x marks no idea ... Wild Guess...see below of that family... This below made by Klingethal...french-cuiriassers-xiii-pattern-sword-with-1815-napoleonic-blade.jpg

M ELEY · 30th October 2017, 05:48 PM

An interesting refurbished piece indeed! I can't add anything to what the others have already mentioned. There is one thing, though. Are we sure this brass hilt pattern is from a French example? The American patterns from the time of the Mexican War up to the Indian Wars heavily copied the French patterns, m1840 Cavalry sabers, m1860 infantry, m1870, etc, etc. I am no expert on CW types, but I've seem them in catalogs.

If you identified the hilt as being an American pattern, the game is afoot! As you probably know, the Confederacy were non-industrial and during the conflict, were in dire need of weapons, materials, blacksmiths to fashion everything! The 'rebs' made do with what they had, refurbishing old sword parts with other hilts, blades, knuckle bows. One only has to look at so called 'Dog River' swords to see the plethora of odd examples present. Indeed, some of the finest Confederate swords were made by both German and French imports!

So...you might (and I do mean might in small print

) have a Confederate cavalry sword, Blockade Runner's cutlass, etc. Exciting thought, but without much research and a darn big helping of luck, it is just a weak theory...
Mark

kronckew · 30th October 2017, 06:51 PM

i missed this one at auction today, listed as french cavalry sabre.

very similar to the above, but hilt is more complete with grip wires. as noted the phrygian cap sabres of the french were copied by the USA, and a number were actually imported from france.

30th October 2017, 10:19 AM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Napolionic Helmet Style Pommel... 44 stamp no idea.... x marks no idea ... Wild Guess...see below of that family... This below made by Klingethal...french-cuiriassers-xiii-pattern-sword-with-1815-napoleonic-blade.jpg Attached Images

30th October 2017, 05:48 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	An interesting refurbished piece indeed! I can't add anything to what the others have already mentioned. There is one thing, though. Are we sure this brass hilt pattern is from a French example? The American patterns from the time of the Mexican War up to the Indian Wars heavily copied the French patterns, m1840 Cavalry sabers, m1860 infantry, m1870, etc, etc. I am no expert on CW types, but I've seem them in catalogs. If you identified the hilt as being an American pattern, the game is afoot! As you probably know, the Confederacy were non-industrial and during the conflict, were in dire need of weapons, materials, blacksmiths to fashion everything! The 'rebs' made do with what they had, refurbishing old sword parts with other hilts, blades, knuckle bows. One only has to look at so called 'Dog River' swords to see the plethora of odd examples present. Indeed, some of the finest Confederate swords were made by both German and French imports! So...you might (and I do mean might in small print ) have a Confederate cavalry sword, Blockade Runner's cutlass, etc. Exciting thought, but without much research and a darn big helping of luck, it is just a weak theory... Mark Last edited by M ELEY; 31st October 2017 at 12:54 AM.

30th October 2017, 06:51 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	i missed this one at auction today, listed as french cavalry sabre. very similar to the above, but hilt is more complete with grip wires. as noted the phrygian cap sabres of the french were copied by the USA, and a number were actually imported from france. Attached Images

28th October 2017, 02:18 PM	#1
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Excellent, thank you for the input, Jim. It seems little used, post refurb.

28th October 2017, 02:28 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	You bet Jon! Actually in my opinion, these reworked combinations which do seem to have seen some use post refurbishing, are most interesting. Many do not seem to realize that edged weapons often had long working lives even generations after the original components had been produced. This is especially true in remote or colonial locations where virtually everything was recycled. I have seen these kinds of combinations a lot in Mexican context where old elements of various previous types of swords were combined. One had a briquette grip, a three bar guard and an old Spanish dragoon blade cut down with the 'Spanish motto' still legible.

28th October 2017, 07:37 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	the grip looks like it should be wrapped in something, twisted/braided wire, leather, rayskin, anything.

28th October 2017, 09:09 PM	#4
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 394	Interesting blade, the grip once had leather but long gone. One bar is missing and where it once joined the guard it has been filed smooth as not to be noticeable. I think the blade may be older than the hilt.