Dogshead Cuttoe 1770's

M ELEY · 21st October 2017, 09:53 AM

"If a Sikh used it...it's Sikh!"

Exactly, Jim! Unlike all the other military branches in Europe and the colonies, specific naval models were rare, with most weapons being those convenient enough to use in the tight quarters of a ship (hangers, hunting swords, dirks). There were virtually no model patterns until the start of the 19th c. ! Officers carried whatever tickled their fancy, private merchant vessels placed orders with local blacksmiths to put together primitive cutlasses in batches to fit out their ship (private purchase weapons, as previously mentioned, could have any one of a combination of hilts, blades, etc). Likewise, don't even get me started on pirate swords!!! As all manner of riffraff sailed with the Saley Rovers, one might see tulwars, shamshir, baskethilts, etc, all on the same crew! Pirates picked up what they could in their raids and didn't discriminate. With no rules telling them what they could carry, anything was fair game.

Getting back to the lion hilt, however, it is well documented that naval officers and army officers on 'both sides of the pond' used them. In Boarders Away, Gilkerson pictures one with provenance. The Maritime Museum in Greenwich likewise has some interesting examples...

Jim McDougall · 21st October 2017, 04:29 PM

LOL! Mark, on the pirate swords, we used to joke about the pirate outfitters store, PIRATES Arrrrrh US!!!!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st October 2017, 09:44 PM

For an interesting Cuttoe see http://www.mountvernon.org/preservat...hilted-cuttoe/

M ELEY · 22nd October 2017, 06:01 AM

Thank you, Ibrahiim, for that magnificently large pic of Washington's sword. I've seen B&W pics of it, but never a pic so detailed! The former prez had, I think, two dress small swords as well.

Jim McDougall · 23rd October 2017, 02:52 AM

Stuart Mowbray, editor of "Man at Arms" magazine, has published an amazing book on George Washington's swords, which gives great insight into these types of swords in use at this time.

Jon MB · 23rd October 2017, 09:00 PM

Thanks for all the info guys. I had spotted Washington's sword previously..How (rare or not) are these pieces generally? As mentioned, I am usually more familiar with cavalry sabres.

M ELEY · 24th October 2017, 02:27 PM

They are relatively uncommon. Just do a search online and you rarely see them up for sale. It is interesting to see the different styles, some with open hilt, like yours (cuttoe-style)m some with plain knuckle bows, others with elaborate slotted hilts with cut-out designs, etc.

21st October 2017, 09:53 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	"If a Sikh used it...it's Sikh!" Exactly, Jim! Unlike all the other military branches in Europe and the colonies, specific naval models were rare, with most weapons being those convenient enough to use in the tight quarters of a ship (hangers, hunting swords, dirks). There were virtually no model patterns until the start of the 19th c. ! Officers carried whatever tickled their fancy, private merchant vessels placed orders with local blacksmiths to put together primitive cutlasses in batches to fit out their ship (private purchase weapons, as previously mentioned, could have any one of a combination of hilts, blades, etc). Likewise, don't even get me started on pirate swords!!! As all manner of riffraff sailed with the Saley Rovers, one might see tulwars, shamshir, baskethilts, etc, all on the same crew! Pirates picked up what they could in their raids and didn't discriminate. With no rules telling them what they could carry, anything was fair game. Getting back to the lion hilt, however, it is well documented that naval officers and army officers on 'both sides of the pond' used them. In Boarders Away, Gilkerson pictures one with provenance. The Maritime Museum in Greenwich likewise has some interesting examples...

21st October 2017, 04:29 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	LOL! Mark, on the pirate swords, we used to joke about the pirate outfitters store, PIRATES Arrrrrh US!!!!

21st October 2017, 09:44 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	For an interesting Cuttoe see http://www.mountvernon.org/preservat...hilted-cuttoe/

22nd October 2017, 06:01 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Thank you, Ibrahiim, for that magnificently large pic of Washington's sword. I've seen B&W pics of it, but never a pic so detailed! The former prez had, I think, two dress small swords as well.

23rd October 2017, 02:52 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Stuart Mowbray, editor of "Man at Arms" magazine, has published an amazing book on George Washington's swords, which gives great insight into these types of swords in use at this time.

23rd October 2017, 09:00 PM	#6
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Thanks for all the info guys. I had spotted Washington's sword previously..How (rare or not) are these pieces generally? As mentioned, I am usually more familiar with cavalry sabres.

24th October 2017, 02:27 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	They are relatively uncommon. Just do a search online and you rarely see them up for sale. It is interesting to see the different styles, some with open hilt, like yours (cuttoe-style)m some with plain knuckle bows, others with elaborate slotted hilts with cut-out designs, etc.