The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

[fernando]

Old 14th October 2008, 02:15 PM

Posted by:
Lee
EAAF Staff

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA


Another term for the "zig-zag" in the context of Native American jewelry is "rocker-engraving," so named as a short bladed chisel is rocked from corner to corner as it is advanced forward to created the larger design.

Example from an early southwestern or plains bracelet:

(missing attachments)
.

[fernando]

Old 14th October 2008, 02:59 PM

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal

I first thaught this would be the technique, but later considered it couldn't be the one used in metals, specially on steel/iron, as needing considerable strenght to impress the marks. Also i found it rather unhandy to rock curved shapes like, for example, some small circular ones in my navaja.
I had the idea that such rock engraving tools were used in old shoe making and other leather crafts.
So much for my geniality

.

[fernando]

Old 14th October 2008, 07:29 PM

Posted by:
Lee
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA

The Native Americans would have been into steel tools by this time; if the bracelet above is Navajo, then it is likely early 1870s, right at the dawn of their silver working. I would agree this technique would be difficult once you were away from soft metals.

(I recently bought a collection of iron arrow points represented as Native American at a local antique store. An advanced bow collector who had passed on first sight, later found an article (I am still waiting for the promised copy) about these arrow tips, and returned to but them the next day. I always think of flint and other stone when I think Native American arrow points, but the very little that I could find on line was a real awakening for me and that was that iron arrowheads were adopted pretty much as soon as the material became available... but that will be another thread).
.

[fernando]

Old 14th October 2008, 08:34 PM

Posted by:
bjeweled
Member

Join Date: Aug 2008


Ok guys...A friend of mine who is a fabulous artist/engraver, receives new blades from the manufacturer, softened, engraves the design of his choice or his client, then ships them back to the manufacturer to have them hardened and mounted into the hilt. This is how you get around the non-soft metals.
.

[fernando]

Old 4th December 2008, 07:54 PM

Posted by:
Kuba
Member

Join Date: Dec 2008

Hello

I looking information about this blade

Is signed TOMAS AYALA and St. Clement's Cross

and have 35 cm long

In my opinion it is German imitation of XVIII century

Thank you for your help
.
Kuba

[fernando]

Old 4th December 2008, 07:56 PM

Posted by:
Kuba
Member

Join Date: Dec 2008


and next photo:
.

[fernando]

Old 5th December 2008, 03:56 PM

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal


Hi Kuba,
Welcome to the Forum.
Before the knowledge people come in, let me speculate a bit .
Visibly a blade cut (or broken), suiting a dagger size. Tang also shortened, basicaly for the same purpose. The wrongly centered hole could have two purposes; either for fixing a dagger handle or simply to use the blade as a wall hanger
Why do you think the signature is not original and this blade was made over a century after that sword smith existed ? Anyway, Tomas de Ayala was one of the most imitated signatures of the period.
Let the experts come by and give a consistent diagnosis.
Fernando
.