The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 18th October 2017, 07:19 PM

Old 4th January 2008, 10:38 PM

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal

That's right, Jim,
As Jeff has quoted in post # 112, a Jesuit symbol or, better said, ( if i may, Jeff ) a symbol adopted by Jesuits, once its origins date back to much earlier times, like the IV century, appearing for example in catacombs.
They also call this symbol a christogram.
Oh boy, the Internet is a miracle
Fernando

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fernando · 18th October 2017, 07:20 PM

Old 5th January 2008, 05:01 AM

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

It sure is Fernando!

Interesting illustration of the IHS with the cross, and it seems very much in line with a lot of the markings we are reviewing. I wonder if a 'Christogram' like this would appear as a marking on weapons, I dont recall seeing any exactly like this, but many quite close.

All very best regards,
Jim
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 11:14 AM

Old 21st April 2008, 04:46 PM

Posted by:
TVV
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area

For future reference, here is a picture of the markings on a blade, mounted with a Moroccan hilt:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attac...tid=28907&stc=1

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fernando · 19th October 2017, 11:15 AM

Old 21st April 2008, 05:30 PM

Posted by:
CourseEight
Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Coral Springs, FL

That's a good idea, I'll toss in a link to my Ottoman naval dirk with what appears to be a French smallsword blade (or thusly inspired):

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6263

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fernando · 19th October 2017, 11:15 AM

Old 27th April 2008, 04:10 PM

Posted by:
kronckew
Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate,
Rm. 101, Glos. UK:

feeling devilish, i thought i'd throw these in to the pot.

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fernando · 19th October 2017, 11:15 AM

Old 27th April 2008, 05:23 PM

Posted by:
kronckew
Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate,
Rm. 101, Glos. UK:

here's a better shot of the marking that i made a few minutes ago:

the blade is also marked closer to the tip

can you see what it is yet?

fairly good replica of a high ranking autro-hungarian hussar sabre, and a LOT cheaper than the original. just thought i'd show that just because it's marked doesn't mean it's not a copy or a blade marked to make it look classier. the marks are pretty clear examples tho, supposedly copied from the original in a museum.

made in germany (solingen) tho this year, instead of the mid-18th c., the marks are laser cut

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fernando · 19th October 2017, 11:16 AM

Old 9th October 2008, 08:11 PM

Posted by:
bjeweled
Member

Join Date: Aug 2008

Hello everyone. Dr. Ann was kind enough to recommend this forum for your informed input. This Saracen was part of the Morossini collection and de-ascensioned in the early 60's. I am especially intrigued by the engravings in the blade as well as to what appears to be the camel bone grip. The metal on the grip acid tests to be 24kt gold with a Nubian emerald in the butt. I have included photos taken at 30X of the blade, but I can only tell you that there is iron included in the marriage of metals. At the base of the blade the flower (?) acid tests as silver. There is an emerald and ruby studded gold sheath that accompanies it, but sadly was "repaired" somewhere prior to 1963. At this time I am carefully restoring the sheath with hopes to keep the integrity of the piece. If anyone can give me some input on this item of intrigue, I would greatly appreciate it.

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18th October 2017, 07:19 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	IHS Old 4th January 2008, 10:38 PM Posted by: fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal That's right, Jim, As Jeff has quoted in post # 112, a Jesuit symbol or, better said, ( if i may, Jeff ) a symbol adopted by Jesuits, once its origins date back to much earlier times, like the IV century, appearing for example in catacombs. They also call this symbol a christogram. Oh boy, the Internet is a miracle Fernando (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:14 PM.

18th October 2017, 07:20 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 5th January 2008, 05:01 AM Posted by: Jim McDougall EAA Research Consultant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 It sure is Fernando! Interesting illustration of the IHS with the cross, and it seems very much in line with a lot of the markings we are reviewing. I wonder if a 'Christogram' like this would appear as a marking on weapons, I dont recall seeing any exactly like this, but many quite close. All very best regards, Jim . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 11:50 AM.

19th October 2017, 11:14 AM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 21st April 2008, 04:46 PM Posted by: TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area For future reference, here is a picture of the markings on a blade, mounted with a Moroccan hilt: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attac...tid=28907&stc=1 . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 11:55 AM.

19th October 2017, 11:15 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 21st April 2008, 05:30 PM Posted by: CourseEight Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coral Springs, FL That's a good idea, I'll toss in a link to my Ottoman naval dirk with what appears to be a French smallsword blade (or thusly inspired): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6263 , Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 11:56 AM.

19th October 2017, 11:15 AM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 27th April 2008, 04:10 PM Posted by: kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK: feeling devilish, i thought i'd throw these in to the pot. . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 11:57 AM.

19th October 2017, 11:16 AM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Trade marks, etchings? Old 9th October 2008, 08:11 PM Posted by: bjeweled Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Hello everyone. Dr. Ann was kind enough to recommend this forum for your informed input. This Saracen was part of the Morossini collection and de-ascensioned in the early 60's. I am especially intrigued by the engravings in the blade as well as to what appears to be the camel bone grip. The metal on the grip acid tests to be 24kt gold with a Nubian emerald in the butt. I have included photos taken at 30X of the blade, but I can only tell you that there is iron included in the marriage of metals. At the base of the blade the flower (?) acid tests as silver. There is an emerald and ruby studded gold sheath that accompanies it, but sadly was "repaired" somewhere prior to 1963. At this time I am carefully restoring the sheath with hopes to keep the integrity of the piece. If anyone can give me some input on this item of intrigue, I would greatly appreciate it. (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:14 PM.