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17th October 2017, 03:18 AM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,141
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An absolutely beautiful sword, Jon. Jim pretty much summed it up. I would only add that these lion pommel swords were very popular with English/American officers in both army and naval settings. Here's mine-
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14342 |
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17th October 2017, 11:58 AM
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 143
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Jim, Mark, many thanks for your encouragement. My American swords book is in storage, will look this up when I get it out. Thank you for the information. I like this piece more now!
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17th October 2017, 07:22 PM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,141
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Almost forgot something important Jim pointed out. This item does appear to have the classic Montmorency blade pattern, another tip of the hat that it might be naval (I know some Forumites are groaning...everything is 'possibly naval' to me!
  )
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18th October 2017, 10:35 PM
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#4 | |
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Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,190
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Quote:
It seems these type blades were pretty well known even before that time. There is really not much that precludes any of these hangers or sabres from finding service aboard vessels. Remember in the on deck melee in Ocracoke in 1718, Blackbeard got it with a Highlander's basket hilt! To the comment on another thread to the effect, 'how do you know its naval?', well, how do you know its not?'. I remember one classic, I asked a Sikh how to identify a 'Sikh' tulwar. He chirped, 'if a Sikh used it.....its Sikh!!!'. |
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21st October 2017, 09:53 AM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,141
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"If a Sikh used it...it's Sikh!"
Exactly, Jim! Unlike all the other military branches in Europe and the colonies, specific naval models were rare, with most weapons being those convenient enough to use in the tight quarters of a ship (hangers, hunting swords, dirks). There were virtually no model patterns until the start of the 19th c. ! Officers carried whatever tickled their fancy, private merchant vessels placed orders with local blacksmiths to put together primitive cutlasses in batches to fit out their ship (private purchase weapons, as previously mentioned, could have any one of a combination of hilts, blades, etc). Likewise, don't even get me started on pirate swords!!! As all manner of riffraff sailed with the Saley Rovers, one might see tulwars, shamshir, baskethilts, etc, all on the same crew! Pirates picked up what they could in their raids and didn't discriminate. With no rules telling them what they could carry, anything was fair game. Getting back to the lion hilt, however, it is well documented that naval officers and army officers on 'both sides of the pond' used them. In Boarders Away, Gilkerson pictures one with provenance. The Maritime Museum in Greenwich likewise has some interesting examples... |
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21st October 2017, 04:29 PM
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#6 |
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Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,190
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LOL! Mark, on the pirate swords, we used to joke about the pirate outfitters store, PIRATES Arrrrrh US!!!!
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21st October 2017, 09:44 PM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
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For an interesting Cuttoe see http://www.mountvernon.org/preservat...hilted-cuttoe/
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