Napoleonic? Hangar type grip, Straight blade

M ELEY · 14th October 2017, 10:38 PM

Thank you, Jim! Don't say that too often or I'll get a big head!

But before I accept my award, I want to make sure that this isn't just another type of Dutch model before I go guessing that it is a prototype or private purchase assemblage. I know of of least two Dutch patterns that have this type hilt. Before the m1790, there was a very similar model pictured in Neumann, #48S, however, it also has the traditional curved blade. The point being, perhaps there IS a straight bladed pattern I'm unfamiliar with? Infantry favored straight bladed hangers of this type, as did naval. So, if it can't be pinned down as that, I would stick to 'private purchase naval', possibly one of a small batch and rather uncommon. A great piece, either way...

Dutch sword experts, any thoughts???

M ELEY · 15th October 2017, 09:46 AM

So far, can't find a straight bladed Dutch saber or hanger of this type with the pattern 1780-90 hilt. Evidence seems to point to my original thought.

Jon MB · 15th October 2017, 11:19 AM

Dear Mark, thank you very much for the research effort.

I had an inkling it might be Dutch. I now hesitate to make suggestions as to identification, as every thing I have posted here has turned out to be something different from what I thought.

I once had a Dutch sabre with a similar brass hilt and projection in the pommel cap, bought in Switzerland, with running-wolf blade snapped in the middle, with a vellum tag attached inscribed, 'Villmergen 1720', or something similar.

Dmitry · 15th October 2017, 02:04 PM

Why would it be naval?! Because you want it to be?

Jon MB · 15th October 2017, 02:22 PM

Could be...and I saw something vaguely similar, described as French Naval. I'll re-check.

You spotted 'Dutch' first, many thanks.

M ELEY · 16th October 2017, 04:44 AM

Why would it be naval?! Because you want it to be? -Dmitry

But of course, my friend, of course!

Still could be infantry. I was guessing naval because hilt is a known marine pattern and straight blades were popular with naval and finally because it appears to be a 'one off', something you wouldn't see in any other service at that time (army, artillery, infantry had their specific models/patterns) except private purchase. Boarders Away addressed these types and had some great ones illustrated...

Jon MB · 17th October 2017, 12:00 PM

Gentlemen, many thanks for these useful pointers.

14th October 2017, 10:38 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Thank you, Jim! Don't say that too often or I'll get a big head! But before I accept my award, I want to make sure that this isn't just another type of Dutch model before I go guessing that it is a prototype or private purchase assemblage. I know of of least two Dutch patterns that have this type hilt. Before the m1790, there was a very similar model pictured in Neumann, #48S, however, it also has the traditional curved blade. The point being, perhaps there IS a straight bladed pattern I'm unfamiliar with? Infantry favored straight bladed hangers of this type, as did naval. So, if it can't be pinned down as that, I would stick to 'private purchase naval', possibly one of a small batch and rather uncommon. A great piece, either way... Dutch sword experts, any thoughts???

15th October 2017, 09:46 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	So far, can't find a straight bladed Dutch saber or hanger of this type with the pattern 1780-90 hilt. Evidence seems to point to my original thought.

15th October 2017, 11:19 AM	#3
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Dear Mark, thank you very much for the research effort. I had an inkling it might be Dutch. I now hesitate to make suggestions as to identification, as every thing I have posted here has turned out to be something different from what I thought. I once had a Dutch sabre with a similar brass hilt and projection in the pommel cap, bought in Switzerland, with running-wolf blade snapped in the middle, with a vellum tag attached inscribed, 'Villmergen 1720', or something similar.

15th October 2017, 02:04 PM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Why would it be naval?! Because you want it to be?

15th October 2017, 02:22 PM	#5
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Could be...and I saw something vaguely similar, described as French Naval. I'll re-check. You spotted 'Dutch' first, many thanks.

16th October 2017, 04:44 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Why would it be naval?! Because you want it to be? -Dmitry But of course, my friend, of course! Still could be infantry. I was guessing naval because hilt is a known marine pattern and straight blades were popular with naval and finally because it appears to be a 'one off', something you wouldn't see in any other service at that time (army, artillery, infantry had their specific models/patterns) except private purchase. Boarders Away addressed these types and had some great ones illustrated...

17th October 2017, 12:00 PM	#7
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Gentlemen, many thanks for these useful pointers.