Old Omani Saif

Jim McDougall · 2nd October 2017, 08:13 PM

Thank you Teodor. It seems it has been thought from the 1990s that these type hilts must have had some sort of silver cladding or decoration which has been invariably removed presumably for the silver or other decoration. It seems odd though that no example of antiquity exists in its full dress. The only examples of such dress are several regalia oriented examples which were mounted in more modern times in Oman.

I suppose that there are no real guidelines for the pairing of types of blades and hilts as there are many instances of for example, officers blades mounted in rather pedestrian other ranks hilts, but it seems unusual.

ariel · 3rd October 2017, 03:13 AM

The book mentioned by Kubur is indeed relevant: it mentions Yemeni "wootz" repeatedly. Whether true or not, the possibility of local manufacture still exists.

Wootz blades were highly valued, and attaching one to the "tried and true" handle might have been a significant upgrade and a pride of the owner.

I have similar kattara, but regretfully not wootz-y.

Just like Teodor and Kubur, I am hesitatnt to accept the idea of a special " dancing sword"

Sword dances are known around the world, but nowhere with special swords.
Ritual dance is kind of magic and sacred. The weapon plays the same role as the dancer. It is a union of both. To imagine that pretty poor Omanis went into trouble and expense to acquire a bauble stretches my imagination. The pics Ibrahiim had shown depict them in pretty worn out clothes. If they did not buy new clothes for a celebratory dance, buying a new sword for a once-a-year occasion sounds dubious.

A.alnakkas · 3rd October 2017, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The book mentioned by Kubur is indeed relevant: it mentions Yemeni "wootz" repeatedly. Whether true or not, the possibility of local manufacture still exists.

Wootz blades were highly valued, and attaching one to the "tried and true" handle might have been a significant upgrade and a pride of the owner.

Best proof for "Yemeni" wootz is the nafi'i dharia blades. Those come in varieties of patterns and I do not recall Indian or Persian examples that fit the bill. Local production is highly likely.

ariel · 3rd October 2017, 09:42 AM

Can you show them?

A.alnakkas · 3rd October 2017, 12:15 PM

Yes. And by pattern I meant the wootz pattern, not the shape of the blade! any Persian or Indian (or Ottoman) example with such a blade? I only found them with Arab fittings, so local production?

First example, crystalline wootz.

A.alnakkas · 3rd October 2017, 12:17 PM

2nd example, a more open pattern. Belongs to my friend, who polished and etched it. Obviously the mounts are later, and these rhomboidal nafi'i blades are highly sought after and wootz is not as common as once thought. Some even have black wootz similar to one found on Persian blades.

A.alnakkas · 3rd October 2017, 12:20 PM

So, knowing that the Omani sword is not a one of a kind since there are multiple examples of ones with wootz blades and the existence of other Arab ( I do not see otherwise) made wootz blades that makes sense of such Omani swords having wootz blades.

In my eyes, Teodor's sword looks 100% right for what it is. Can the handle be older? could be, similar to how tulwars often get rehilted using older handles. This offers no sense of suspicion.

3rd October 2017, 12:15 PM	#5
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Yes. And by pattern I meant the wootz pattern, not the shape of the blade! any Persian or Indian (or Ottoman) example with such a blade? I only found them with Arab fittings, so local production? First example, crystalline wootz. Attached Images

3rd October 2017, 12:17 PM	#6
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	2nd example, a more open pattern. Belongs to my friend, who polished and etched it. Obviously the mounts are later, and these rhomboidal nafi'i blades are highly sought after and wootz is not as common as once thought. Some even have black wootz similar to one found on Persian blades. Attached Images

2nd October 2017, 08:13 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Thank you Teodor. It seems it has been thought from the 1990s that these type hilts must have had some sort of silver cladding or decoration which has been invariably removed presumably for the silver or other decoration. It seems odd though that no example of antiquity exists in its full dress. The only examples of such dress are several regalia oriented examples which were mounted in more modern times in Oman. I suppose that there are no real guidelines for the pairing of types of blades and hilts as there are many instances of for example, officers blades mounted in rather pedestrian other ranks hilts, but it seems unusual.

3rd October 2017, 03:13 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The book mentioned by Kubur is indeed relevant: it mentions Yemeni "wootz" repeatedly. Whether true or not, the possibility of local manufacture still exists. Wootz blades were highly valued, and attaching one to the "tried and true" handle might have been a significant upgrade and a pride of the owner. I have similar kattara, but regretfully not wootz-y. Just like Teodor and Kubur, I am hesitatnt to accept the idea of a special " dancing sword" Sword dances are known around the world, but nowhere with special swords. Ritual dance is kind of magic and sacred. The weapon plays the same role as the dancer. It is a union of both. To imagine that pretty poor Omanis went into trouble and expense to acquire a bauble stretches my imagination. The pics Ibrahiim had shown depict them in pretty worn out clothes. If they did not buy new clothes for a celebratory dance, buying a new sword for a once-a-year occasion sounds dubious.

3rd October 2017, 09:42 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Can you show them?

3rd October 2017, 12:20 PM	#7
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	So, knowing that the Omani sword is not a one of a kind since there are multiple examples of ones with wootz blades and the existence of other Arab ( I do not see otherwise) made wootz blades that makes sense of such Omani swords having wootz blades. In my eyes, Teodor's sword looks 100% right for what it is. Can the handle be older? could be, similar to how tulwars often get rehilted using older handles. This offers no sense of suspicion.