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Old 7th September 2017, 06:15 PM   #1
kronckew
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yup, you can change the dress, but it's the blade that counts most. bit like a keris... a US/PK or even a modern GB damascus blade just doesn't fit the stag & silver grip. i do like your 'bowie' carver tho.
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Old 7th September 2017, 09:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
yup, you can change the dress, but it's the blade that counts most. bit like a keris... a US/PK or even a modern GB damascus blade just doesn't fit the stag & silver grip. i do like your 'bowie' carver tho.
true enough .... yes the carving knife I found at a show in Belgium ... I had to buy it as it has a Liverpool address ! There is an English guy who is very skilled at reshaping and ageing Victorian carving knives into classic bowie shapes.... they often have good Sheffield names with Victorian cyphers and crowns. He then re mounts them( often with old horsehead cutlery hilts and makes a suitable cross guard . He is well known as an accomplished forger ... many of his efforts he claims are in Manions and illustrated in Abels books . He has been inside for his efforts more than once .
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Old 24th September 2017, 07:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinreadline
true enough .... yes the carving knife I found at a show in Belgium ... I had to buy it as it has a Liverpool address ! There is an English guy who is very skilled at reshaping and ageing Victorian carving knives into classic bowie shapes.... they often have good Sheffield names with Victorian cyphers and crowns. He then re mounts them( often with old horsehead cutlery hilts and makes a suitable cross guard . He is well known as an accomplished forger ... many of his efforts he claims are in Manions and illustrated in Abels books . He has been inside for his efforts more than once .
Considering how thin carving knives are especially from that era of cutlery manufacture it seems difficult to make a convincing Bowie hunting knife from one just by changing the profile. Spending time inside for such efforts sounds like something out of a Lovejoy mystery novel. Did not think such things actually happen
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Old 25th September 2017, 07:11 PM   #4
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While spectacular in appearance almost all pattern welded blades coming from India or Pakistan have extremely poor mechanical properties making them rather unsuitable for cutting anything but... butter. But this is based on my observations, so I would like to hear othe oppinions as well.
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Old 25th September 2017, 08:04 PM   #5
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While spectacular in appearance almost all pattern welded blades coming from India or Pakistan have extremely poor mechanical properties making them rather unsuitable for cutting anything but... butter. But this is based on my observations, so I would like to hear othe oppinions as well.
modern monosteels are better mechanically. pattern welded blades were obsolete militarily soon after. they were in their day, the best way to make blades from variable steels. modern paki/imdian versions were not the best examples in the beginning, as the old skills had been lost, many are now a lot better than a few years back and do not deserve opprobrium without evidence. still, monosteels are and will be better preforming. a lot depends on design, and what you intend do do with the pattern welded objects and how severely you treat them. as in many things you get what you pay for. bad execution in 'damascus' is just as bad as in mono steels. caveat emptor, but there are still some decent makers there. just be cautious.
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Old 25th September 2017, 08:30 PM   #6
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I do agree that the performance characteristics of some pattern welded steel are very inferior to those of good quality, properly forged and heat treated monosteel.

However, pattern welded steel that has been made by a competent smith, using good quality materials, and properly heat treated, can perform as well as modern monosteel in some applications, and in other applications can outperform modern monosteel.

For example, if we use 01 (oil hardening steel #1) and either good quality wrought iron or a modern low carbon steel, say less than 0.05% carbon, as the foundation materials, the resultant mechanical damascus/pattern welded product will display superior cutting characteristics to the cutting characteristics of 01 used by itself for the same type of blade. Additionally, the 01+low carbon mechanical damascus will resist breakage better, can be straightened without reheating, and will be easier to resharpen than 01 used by itself.

The characteristics of good quality mechanical damascus are most definitely not universally poor. Consider the past applications of mechanical damascus, for instance, gun barrels.

Good quality mechanical damascus can be a thing of beauty, as well as a thing of very superior performance characteristics. It all depends on the material used and the skill of the craftsman who made it.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:38 PM   #7
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I was referring strictly to the majority of pattern welded blades that come from India and Pakistan. And that is not necessarily because of the makers' poor skill, but because of the poor quality of the steels they use in the billet. Good steel doesn't come cheap and if they were to use good quality steels for their blades, they won't be able to keep the price that low.

I have seen superb quality pattern welded blades made in Japan, Sweden and many other countries. However, almost all pattern welded Indian /Pakistani blades on sale on eBay are crap.... from the mechanical point of view, but they look good and are dirt cheap. And buyer won't discover the mechanical properies of the blade until much later, after the buying process has been concluded.

PS: Some Japanese pattern welded chef's knives are considered to be among the best in the world... but they cost a fortune. And in the case of a chef's knife the pattern weld serves to more than simple decoy as it prevents the cleaved food to stick to the blade.

Last edited by mariusgmioc; 26th September 2017 at 02:07 PM.
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