Karud: the weapon that did not exist:-)

[ariel]

So, the correct name of Kirach is Kirch?
Sounds good to me:-)

I applaud you.
BTW, where does this information come from?

[Mercenary]

The word is written like "kirch". But pronounced like "kir(a)ch", "kir(u)ch" and so. It depends on who is speaking and who is listening. When the Indians speak, then I, a Russian guy, hear how "kirЭch" (very short sound "Э", like "ae" in English).

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by ariel

BTW, where does this information come from?

Many thanks. I often travel around India, read in museums the descriptions in Hindi, communicate, talk to antique dealers and gunsmiths, and in Moscow I sit with Hindi/Urdu dictionaries))

[ariel]

Highly commendable.

Can you bring an official reference?

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by ariel

Highly commendable.

Can you bring an official reference?

About "kirch"? I am sorry. Only the word itself:
کرچ
किरच

[Mercenary]

Ariel, I have been searching for you some references for kirch, but look what I have found in Baden-Powell hand-book. I forgot about it.
Specially for you

[estcrh]

Dolche und Messer aus dem Persischen Kulturraum
1984 (Daggers and knives made ​​of the Persian cultural region
in 1984)

123 different daggers and knives from Islamic countries from the 17th-19th Century
60 pages, 2 color plates, numerous black and white photos, descriptions and history of development in German language.

[estcrh]

Egerton seemed to label just about any type of dagger as "pesh kabz". I give credit to the people who tried to sort out the distinct types by applying individual names. Some people seem to have just gone along with Egerton while others did not, which eventually led us to the current discussion. You can see what is clearly a pesh kabz #717, with two kards #721 and #722 and what looks to be a choora / karud #624


An Illustrated Handbook of Indian Arms: Being a Classified and Descriptive Catalogue of the Arms Exhibited at the India Museum: with an Introductory Sketch of the Military History of India, Earl Wilbraham Egerton Egerton
W.H. Allen, 1880.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Ariel, I have been searching for you some references for kirch, but look what I have found in Baden-Powell hand-book. I forgot about it.
Specially for you

From the book, here you see kirch (straight sword) mentioned as well as khanjar, which is described as a bigger version of the bichua dagger shown, which does not look like what we would call a "bichua". No mention of a curved pesh at all.

HAND-BOOK of the MANUFACTURES AND ARTS of the PUNJAB, 1872, B.H. BADEN POWEL

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by estcrh

...which does not look like what we would call ...

It is solely our problems. In the book all right.

Peshkabz is just an object which necessary to keep differently unlike all Indian daggers. If it straight or curve - it is only the details.

[estcrh]

The Met Museum avoids using dagger names except for the katar in their book "Islamic Arms and Armor in The Metropolitan Museum of Art", David G. Alexander,
Metropolitan Museum of Art, 2015, I guess that is one way to solve the name situation. Jambiya, kard and khanjar are all described was "dagger". Just remove all "foreign terms"....humm....like that is so much better than including all of those pesky "foreign terms" with understandable explanations. The term "katar" is used once along with other possible names but the image has "punch dagger" as the description.

In keeping with the intention that this publication should be intelligible to the general reader as well as the specialist, foreign terms have been kept to a minimum.