Early 17th Century swept hilt rapier with ovoid pommel

[Helleri]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

at last may be readable !

Could be PAUL- U -- MEFICIT SOLINGEN

Played a lot with contrast, brightness, values, and levels in GIMP. Can't be certain. But I think the word on the left is Meigen.





Which according to google is a German surname. Furthermore according to pintrest there is at least one rapier attributed to a bladesmith out of Solingen named Clemens Meigen housed in the Philidelphia Museum of Art.

Looking at that example it appears he did put his name in the fuller in a similar manner and with a similar font/face. It's a lot of supposition I know. But it looks like a case that could be strengthened.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Helleri

... Looking at that example it appears he did put his name in the fuller in a similar manner and with a similar font/face....

Nice work with the photo handling, Hellery; and not an implausibe suggestion but ... does it look to you that, the style of the name inscription is about the same ? .


.

[Helleri]

Originally Posted by fernando

Nice work with the photo handling, Hellery; and not an implausibe suggestion but ... does it look to you that, the style of the name inscription is about the same ? .


.

Look at the character spacing. IGEN are consistently spaced more or less. But between M and E. As well as between E and I. There is noticeably larger spacing. That would suggest a loss of discernible detail. That could be a more elaborate E. It could also be punctuation. However the very next E has no such gap. Which would suggest that it is more likely punctuation or just bad spacing.

All I can say is that from what is left of the inscription. Those are how the characters present. Where it assumed that a character consists of contiguous regions (multiple similarity based selection tools don't really lie when the cross comparison all agrees).

The I could have been a P. That's possible. But if it was there is no evidence for it remaining. We can make all the presumptions and forced fits that we like. I'm just going off what can be known. And what can be known may be too incomplete to accurately point to anything. Which would be unfortunate but again entirely possible.

I just googled based off what could be known as far as my skills allow me to tell. Get someone with better image enhancement abilities and programs and you may get an answer you like better

[cornelistromp]

I think it's a left hand rapier with 30-40cm shortened blade.

the twin rapiers, a rapier that is divided into 2 halves, so that as a surprise two weapons arise, to which Philip refers (Boccia/Coelho, ARMI BIANCHE ITALIANE, 555/556) are much longer ; in Boccia bladelengths of 109 and 119cm respectively .

Given the heavy pommel it is more likely that the original length was longer.

(maybe the rapier has been shortened in time for a left handed man with a growth disorder.)


The hilt design seems English (influenced) to me 1620-1640

attached rapier from my coll. with inscription of clemens Meigen.
on JL rapier is Meigen written with a new type E, this E also occurred in the early 17th century

best,
Jasper

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

I think it's a left hand rapier with 30-40cm shortened blade.

the twin rapiers, a rapier that is divided into 2 halves, so that as a surprise two weapons arise, to which Philip refers (Boccia/Coelho, ARMI BIANCHE ITALIANE, 555/556) are much longer ; in Boccia bladelengths of 109 and 119cm respectively .

Given the heavy pommel it is more likely that the original length was longer.

(maybe the rapier has been shortened in time for a left handed man with a growth disorder.)


The hilt design seems English (influenced) to me 1620-1640

attached rapier from my coll. with inscription of clemens Meigen.
on JL rapier is Meigen written with a new type E, this E also occurred in the early 17th century

best,
Jasper

Hi Jasper,
Looking at the blade geometry and also at the possibility of a shortened blade,can we have a blade also reshaped ?
With circa 35 cm more, the blade geometry would be somewhat unusual as the actual blade width at the tip is already near is the minimum width for a tip .

best
Jean-Luc

[Robert]

To help read poor inscriptions you can try using a "weak" magnet placed on the backside of the blade (behind the inscription) and very sparingly sprinkle iron powder on the other side where the inscription is. Sometimes you will need to blow lightly on the powder to get it to move around and form letters. This does not always work, but I have had some success using this method.

Best,
Robert

[cornelistromp]

Hi Jean Luc,

yes I think the blade is reshaped at the point.

At the point the blade is not gradually narrowing in width but suddenly, like a colichemarde blade.

This is not common for a rapier blade.

best,
Jasper

ps.
as a general rule. Girard Thibault recommended in his book Academie de l'Espée in 1630 the following length for a rapier;

With the point on the ground, the guillon block reaches the belly button.

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Hi Jean Luc,


ps.
as a general rule. Girard Thibault recommended in his book Academie de l'Espée in 1630 the following length for a rapier;

With the point on the ground, the guillon block reaches the belly button.

Jasper,

So for a 120 cm blade the man would be around 190 cm tall so not common for the period!
Best

Jean-Luc

[cornelistromp]

jean Luc,

when we guess your rapier is shortened by 30cm.
then the length of the right owner is approx. 175cm

for your rapier the man's length should be around 125cm.
fe Tyrion Lannister in games of thrones.

best,
Jasper

[fernando]

I am just a bit taller than a 'shorty' and my belly button stays at 90 cms. May we guess that an 'average plus' guy would have his belly button at 100 cms. ?Meaning that Jean-Luc's sword blade would have beenm shortened by some 20 cms. which, for a blade shortening operation, is still considerable .