European Wootz?

[Bryce]

G'day Helleri,

Most British swords of this era are marked, but there are many that aren't, so not unusual.

Cheers,
Bryce

[Victrix]

What was the point with quill point swords? Were there any practical reasons for them, or mostly for show? It looks like a variation of the false edge of a sabre and the "T" back of a Kilic.

[scinde]

Originally Posted by Victrix

What was the point with quill point swords? Were there any practical reasons for them, or mostly for show? It looks like a variation of the false edge of a sabre and the "T" back of a Kilic.

Officers of the Bombay Light Cavalry carried stirrup hilted swords with the quill point at a time that is likely contemporary with the sword that features in this post; with swords marked to the 1st and 2nd regiments having been sighted.

Swords with quill-pointed blades were still being purchased by some cavalry officers of the EIC in the middle 1850s (largely irregular cavalry), as it appears the ram-rod back (or pipe-back) to the blade was considered more rigid, and combined with the style of point, better used to penetrate mail.

Swords with the ram-rod back, but no pronounced quill point were also made for cavalry troopers at the time of the Mutiny of 1857, with use likely extending into the 1860s. There is also evidence that suggest that quill-pointed blades were still with some officers, some time after the mutiny.

[Philip]

Weren't swords based on regulation patterns sometimes made-to-order for British officers by native swordsmiths in India?

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

So the jury is out? If only the smith had marked his work. Were Eastern smiths still producing wootz at this time?

Cheers,
Bryce

[Philip]

Wootz blades dated throughout the 19th cent. are seen on Indian, Persian, and Ottoman weapons. Europeans wanted to find out the secret to making the stuff for centuries. A Frenchman succeeded early in the 19th cent, but it never went beyond a few prototype blades. More successful were the Russians -- an engineer named Anossov cracked the secret by the late 1830s and a limited number of saber blades were produced under his supervision at the imperial sword factory at Zlatoust in the early 1840s. Examples occasionally reach the market today but they are not common. Anossov's penchant for secrecy meant that the process pretty much stayed in his pocket, so it died with him. In Russian, wootz is referred to as "bulat", an obvious derivation from Farsi (Persian) "foulad", literally meaning steel but crystalline damask in particular.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

I recently came across a photo of an Indian tulwar with a pipe-back blade in the British style, which appears to be wootz. Perhaps my quill point could be some sort of wootz after all? Below is a photo of a British 1796 light cavalry officer sword made around 1815 to compare it to.

Cheers,
Bryce

[MForde]

Originally Posted by Philip

Weren't swords based on regulation patterns sometimes made-to-order for British officers by native swordsmiths in India?

There are certainly Indian-made variations on the 1845 Pattern Sabre. I think I had one for the State of Kotar that replaced the Victoria Regina in the cartouche for a more local symbol.

[ariel]

In Manfred Sachse book “ Damascus steel” there is an example of a similar pattern. It is called “ rafinated steel”, a variety of Damascus superficially resembling sham wootz.

[Bryce]

Thanks Ariel,
I don't have the book, but I will do some research on "rafinated steel".
Cheers,
Bryce

[Bryce]

Originally Posted by Victrix

What was the point with quill point swords? Were there any practical reasons for them, or mostly for show? It looks like a variation of the false edge of a sabre and the "T" back of a Kilic.

G'day Victrix,

The quill-point was an attempt to make a straight thrusting sword that had a curved cutting edge. It is a good thrusting sword, but unfortunately the thick, reinforced spine gets in the way of a good cut. Nevertheless, it can still deliver a nasty slash. It also has a very sharp, but still strong point.

It looks frightening, but I suspect it wasn't that effective in combat, hence the short service life, (except in India and in a shortened naval form).

Cheers,

Bryce