Karud: the weapon that did not exist:-)

[Jim McDougall]

Perfectly elaborated Fernando, and you have hit the chord pitch perfect. While the linguistics are fascinating, complexity notwithstanding, the point of all this reflects the suggestion placed in the paper of the original post.
This is that a term derived from developmental linguistic engineering, whether intentional or not in the course of evolution to describe a certain object etc. in present and known definition. should be removed.

It is rather like removal of a cornerstone from a structure because the component material is incongruent with the rest of the materials in place. Perhaps not a sufficient analogy and probably arguable if there are architects out there, but I think the point is clear.

We have lived with these misnomers and linguistic misteakes this long, so I agree, leave them in situ (Latin term, impressive yes?)

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...bleave them in situ (Latin term, impressive yes?) ...

Rather impressive, Jim; i guess a peritus linguae latinae wouldn't do it better .
Thank you for giving a hand to compose my previous meaningless catharsis.
And speaking of languages, in order to back myself up with some solid consistence after meddling in this thread with a couple unschooled 'filology' stray shots, i have just acquired this book which shows the significant number of words still used in our vocabulary, based in the original language of my neighborhood, spoken before the Romans stormed the place with their 'linguae'.


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[kronckew]

Ceterum censeo, when hannibal was organising his army to cross the alps and invade italy to destroy rome, he had to defeat a lot of roman allied tribes in the iberian penninsula, he enlisted the aid of the tribes along the western coast who were famously bellicose and had resisted successfully the roman offers. they ultimately lost, but remain bellicose. and they make fine wines but for them, we all might be speaking french and drinking their rotgut grape juice.

[fernando]

I don't know if i catch your drift, Wayne but, i didn't hear you complaining about the whines they served you with the barnacles when you wandered around this spot .

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by fernando

I don't know if i catch your drift, Wayne but, i didn't hear you complaining about the whines they served you with the barnacles when you wandered around this spot .

seems to have lost a bit in translation.

was a bit of a obscure reference to the bravery of the section of iberia which became portugal, in resisting the initial spread of pax romanum and their lingua, and a poke in the ribs of the froggies while praising your wines, they are so proud of their wines, which to me are poor by comparison to those of portugal. (british wine is catching up and surpassing french, we still can't make a decent fortified wine yet here in the UK, that's OK tho, we import it from your neck of the woods. no doubt after the brexit we'll set up the old traditional smuggling routes again.)

hmm, i wonder if sailors ate the barnacles they scraped off their hulls.... i recall eating some mussels near lisboa one night, quite nice they were too. my vegan wife, now ex, had her usual salad. she did drink and enjoy the wine in large quantities tho. i recall a vinho verde with fondness, made her frisky. we did eat a certain soup together a lot,AÇORDA ALENTEJANA , for the rest of you it's made with a big bunch of coriander, lots of garlic, bread and a poached egg on top (she did eat eggs. it remains a favourite of mine, i make it myself quite often, tho i do usually add some chicken breast as i use chicken stock (i didn't tell her y'all use chicken stock too - if she didn't know she wasn't bothered)... - it's getting close to dinner time and my mind drifts to food.).

[ariel]

During Napoleonic wars Brits could not import French or Spanish wines and switched to Portugese sources. Wines got oxidized during sea voyages, and alcohol had to be added to prevent fermentation. That's how port (from Oporto) became popular in Britain.
When we vacationed in the middle of nowhere in Portugal, in a small bed and breakfast place surrounded by mountaines and overlooking a lake. One day I spent 3 hours on the patio , eating ugly pears that tasted like ambrosia and writing a paper I procrastinated over for a year. Drank 2 bottles of local Port ( ~$3 per 750 ml bottle) and wrote away without any inhibitions. The paper was accepted without corrections.
Back home I tried to find the magic brew, but could not. My scientific productivity plummeted since.....

[kronckew]

you should have eaten more Açorda Alentejana, garlic is good for the memory. now, what were we talking about?

(i had some boiled vegetables, pork , a fried egg with a pork bone stock with oyster sauce gravy with about 4 cloves worth of chopped garlic, over pasta noodles for breakfast. it thins the blood and is good for all manner of ills - and i don't have to worry about smelling of garlic as i'm on my own.)

one of my neighbours commented to me recently 'was that wonderful smell from your end of the corridor yours? i love garlic'. i gave her a bunch of the dried garlic i used. sadly, other brits do not appreciate the aroma as much. a pox on them, i don't care.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

... we did eat a certain soup together a lot, AÇORDA ALENTEJANA , for the rest of you it's made with a big bunch of coriander, lots of garlic, bread and a poached egg on top it remains a favourite of mine, i make it myself quite often, tho i do usually add some chicken breast ...

That´s the problem with Açorda the Alentejana way; too thin. You have to order them Migas, if you want something more substantial; whereas Açorda outside Alentejo goes with lots of stuff ... cod fish, shell fish, you name it; and again with a starry egg to mix with.

Originally Posted by ariel

... During Napoleonic wars Brits could not import French or Spanish wines and switched to Portugese sources. Wines got oxidized during sea voyages, and alcohol had to be added to prevent fermentation. That's how port (from Oporto) became popular in Britain...

Well ... not so late, according to reliable sources. Port whine started being fortified during the late XVII century, much before Napoleon was born, in fact to prevent it from deteriorating during long sea trips.
Later in the second half of XVIII century a pre-fermentation fortifying process, together with a few other practices, was set up to establish what Port whine is nowadays. Eventually only in the XIX century all producers were using such method.

Originally Posted by ariel

... One day I spent 3 hours on the patio , eating ugly pears that tasted like ambrosia and writing a paper I procrastinated over for a year. Drank 2 bottles of local Port ( ~$3 per 750 ml bottle) and wrote away without any inhibitions. The paper was accepted without corrections.
Back home I tried to find the magic brew, but could not. My scientific productivity plummeted since.....

Ah, ah, i know where to find that stuff. Actually within less than a month i will go up there and acquire the real thing; no label, no Institute proof mark, only the home made stuff. Not that i am needing to reinstall my productivity; only to get drunk with some class.