Unusual Indian dagger / short sword

Royston · 23rd August 2017, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

A blunt and honest answer:

the blade is tourist crap.

Sorry!

Glad that is sorted out then

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th August 2017, 05:06 PM

The sword n' gun makers in Afghanistan have been turning stuff like this out for ages ... The carvings whilst coarsely executed are reminiscent of finer work... actually the souk in Chicken street Kabul is full of these and similar, whilst down the road really good work is being made with Koftgari and all. In other shops close by you can find genuine old examples. I would agree on tourist material here, however, these are not weak blades and would go through most heavy leather clothing ...The blades are strong. After a while these are easy to spot as they have a look about them of late Qajar carvings naively done..interesting that they are being made in the same old way as the originals were... and often apprentice pieces ...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Jim McDougall · 24th August 2017, 06:03 PM

This is an interesting looking khanjhar (I cannot resist noting the broad use of this term as the concurrent thread on the karud term has been mentioned).
I typically try to avoid the 'tourist' moniker, and as has been noted, there are distinctly seen differences in quality of weapons produced in ethnic character which MAY be acquired by tourists, but in many cases by locals as well.

The curious and thickened 'barb' at the tip of this blade seems more for threatening 'effect' visually than practically intended. Burton (1884) described the folly of barbed or serrated blades in that these became imbedded in the victim and not being able to be withdrawn, left the user weaponless.
Naturally, no edged weapon was intended to directly penetrate plate armor, and those intended for armor piercing were thickened at the notably narrowed spear type point to enter mail through opening a link.

Plate armor was bashed to compromise it enough to possibly open a breech, but typically penetration of edged weapons was in areas not covered by the armor. In any case, in India and Central Asia, plate was not worn as a rule, and 'piercing' was directed toward heavily layered textiles or leather.

With the obvious matter of ingress and egress the point of this curious weapon, though dramatically threatening, renders it unlikely as a weapon, at least in the usual manner. Still, the prospect of having that nasty barb imbedded in someone is a dreadful consideration.

Eric, well noted instances, and thank you so much for encouraging the use of the search feature here by using key words. We have all spent many years together here compiling an impressive archives of data, which is a valuable resource which is most helpful in research.

estcrh · 14th September 2017, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Plate armor was bashed to compromise it enough to possibly open a breech, but typically penetration of edged weapons was in areas not covered by the armor. In any case, in India and Central Asia, plate was not worn as a rule, and 'piercing' was directed toward heavily layered textiles or leather.

Jim, in Indian plate armor was used quite extensively, char-aia were common as were mail and plate shirts, even European style cuirass, with mail shirts / hauberk being quite common as well. The Afghans did not seem to use plate armor very much and mail armor was not as common as far as I can tell.

24th August 2017, 05:06 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The sword n' gun makers in Afghanistan have been turning stuff like this out for ages ... The carvings whilst coarsely executed are reminiscent of finer work... actually the souk in Chicken street Kabul is full of these and similar, whilst down the road really good work is being made with Koftgari and all. In other shops close by you can find genuine old examples. I would agree on tourist material here, however, these are not weak blades and would go through most heavy leather clothing ...The blades are strong. After a while these are easy to spot as they have a look about them of late Qajar carvings naively done..interesting that they are being made in the same old way as the originals were... and often apprentice pieces ... Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

24th August 2017, 06:03 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	This is an interesting looking khanjhar (I cannot resist noting the broad use of this term as the concurrent thread on the karud term has been mentioned). I typically try to avoid the 'tourist' moniker, and as has been noted, there are distinctly seen differences in quality of weapons produced in ethnic character which MAY be acquired by tourists, but in many cases by locals as well. The curious and thickened 'barb' at the tip of this blade seems more for threatening 'effect' visually than practically intended. Burton (1884) described the folly of barbed or serrated blades in that these became imbedded in the victim and not being able to be withdrawn, left the user weaponless. Naturally, no edged weapon was intended to directly penetrate plate armor, and those intended for armor piercing were thickened at the notably narrowed spear type point to enter mail through opening a link. Plate armor was bashed to compromise it enough to possibly open a breech, but typically penetration of edged weapons was in areas not covered by the armor. In any case, in India and Central Asia, plate was not worn as a rule, and 'piercing' was directed toward heavily layered textiles or leather. With the obvious matter of ingress and egress the point of this curious weapon, though dramatically threatening, renders it unlikely as a weapon, at least in the usual manner. Still, the prospect of having that nasty barb imbedded in someone is a dreadful consideration. Eric, well noted instances, and thank you so much for encouraging the use of the search feature here by using key words. We have all spent many years together here compiling an impressive archives of data, which is a valuable resource which is most helpful in research.